Insulation insulation filling the voids of a wall?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 23/11/10, 21:04

Could be repellent, it's true it is! It is even its main function.

Bearpanda wrote:Dedeleco wrote:
the hardening foam stuck in a rigid space has a huge force that can flip the partition so badly.


Yes, I am aware of it, but I do not think to apply it myself and to appeal to a specialized company, .... if I find one! :?: :!:
Does anyone know of a company of this type. :?: :x

Do not exaggerate anyway ... The one that is sold in sprays in DIY stores, does not have the same coefs as that used in the building industry ...
By drilling holes in the partition, it allows to evacuate the overflow of pressure, there is nothing else to do than go easy in the filling, to let it swell in height epicetou.

Calling a pro in this case will not save you from a pressure problem against a wall. Worse, if the employee who does the job is a poacher or the boss is self-proclaimed insulation specialist ... it may well be that you can not turn against them in the event of improper application (unless take your precautions by coating it black on white ...) and in the worst case, that it is necessary to redo the wall because their products are more powerful than those found in mass distribution ...

zorglub wrote:I also had these insulation problems and I used vermiculite. easy to implement. for the passage of possible cables, son, I installed at the four corners electrical sleeves diameter 16 mm with needle which in case of work will facilitate the implementation
nb: vermiculite has the advantage of not being safe for rats or others because if it engages in the layer, they drown
installed for over twenty years, never had problems

I've been reading this here several times already ... but where did you see that vermiculite was a "thermal insulator", to put between partitions ....? And how would this material prevent air from circulating : Shock: because moreover if it circulates, that proves that it is not "isolated ..."

It is used as:
- high temperature heat shield.
- refractory material.

It is however simple to know it, if it is not very light, it is not a good insulator ...
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cortejuan
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by cortejuan » 07/01/13, 22:01

Hi,
I dig up this thread so as not to recreate one on a very close subject:

I have a very old house, a good part of which is covered with 18th and 19th century woodwork.

The age and the central heating that I installed degraded the structures and I have to restore them.
As there is a gap between the woodwork and the wall I intend to fill it with an insulating material, I do not want polystyrene and therefore I would gladly turn to vermiculite, perlite or a mixture of the two. I add that ants settle regularly between wood and wall and a loose material should be unsuitable for the installation of a colony.

I had also thought of these aluminized multilayers, much criticized for their insulating qualities, but interesting because they are compressible so that they can be slid between woodwork and wall. I gave up because the waterproofing of the material may be harmful to my stone walls.

What is your opinion ? What is the right choice?


Thank you in advance
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 07/01/13, 23:58

cortejuan wrote:I have a very old house, a good part of which is covered with 18th and 19th century woodwork.

The age and the central heating that I installed degraded the structures and I have to restore them.
As there is a gap between the woodwork and the wall I intend to fill it with an insulating material, I do not want polystyrene and therefore I would gladly turn to vermiculite, perlite or a mixture of the two. I add that ants settle regularly between wood and wall and a loose material should be unsuitable for the installation of a colony.

It is delicate (if this is the type of woodwork I am thinking of). Because the principle of insulation is to offer a certain seal everywhere!
So why not the cellulose wadding treated with boron salt (which should be effective in eradicating your ants if they eat them). Better ask the manufacturer of the product you want to use, amha.

And how do you access this void?
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cortejuan
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by cortejuan » 08/01/13, 10:49

Hello,

thanks for the advice,

to access the vacuum, I have only one solution is to disassemble in particular under the windows, there is a shelf that I should be able to remove without much harm and damage. I add that in one of my rooms, the panel is completely rotten (apparently dry rot), I will have to redo it identically. The other panels suffered from the dry air from the central heating and shrank strongly, leaving significant gaps in the assemblies. All this will be deposited, processed and replaced.

I hadn't thought of cellulose wadding, I'll find out.

Kind regards
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by Bearpanda » 08/01/13, 21:54

Hello Cortejuan,
Some questions to better understand your problem:
- how thick is the empty space between the panels and the wall?
- do you have the possibility of envisaging the installation of an insulation on all the height of the wall then to cover with plasterboard and finally to put back the woodworks against the plasterboard?

Besides, I think you should consider solving the problem in several stages if you plan to dismantle everything:
- first eliminate the ants by an adequate treatment (we sell in the trade small boxes which act by contamination of the ants between them. Quite effective; there are also other products but I have not tried them.
- then try to determine the origin of this infestation (floor or hole in the walls?). If it is the floor provide an air tightness veil which would be glued with a putty along the walls (besides why not make it go up along the wall to the top of the woodwork?)
- then provide an insulator which can absorb the little moisture that there could be and therefore avoid its condensation on the wood of the panels: therefore either wadding in panel as proposed by Obamot, or wood fiber of low density (40 Kg / cm²) to absorb irregularities in thickness.

In any case, I strongly recommend polyurethane injection, and of course vermiculite for the reasons already mentioned by Obamot I believe in a previous intervention on the same thread.
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by cortejuan » 09/01/13, 10:11

hello and thank you for the answers,

to answer, the distance between the panel is of the order of 1 to 2cm so it is very little but ideal for critters.

Regarding the cellulose wadding, I have two objections: the risk of compaction and especially the boron treatment. It can be explained to me that it is not dangerous, if I choose an ecological solution, it will be entirely ...

For the walls, it is another story, my walls are very thick in stone assembled with the clay / lime / sand mixture as they proceeded with me 3 centuries ago.

So they insulate a lot but I would still like to improve the insulation. The problem is that this one can only be very thin otherwise, I am forced to dismantle all the molded recesses of my windows to deport them to the level of the insulation, in addition, these recesses are also dressed in woodwork which should be replaced by new ones adapted to the new wall geometry.

So this problem is on hold, as I am going to renovate in the coming months / years (all my windows are already changed), either I renovate identically without insulation or I find a solution that does not lead me to break everything ...

cordially
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by Obamot » 09/01/13, 17:06

Hi, how are you doing...

Well I made a paper on it:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ouate-de-c ... 10528.html

Cellulose wadding is wood so 100% recovered.

Boron salt is a salt. More stable there is not (a salt is the very result of an acid-base reaction, completed and completely neutralized, etc.)

So it's safe and 100% green.

Eco-balance price there is no better amha.
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by cortejuan » 09/01/13, 18:41

Hi,

not being a lover of sarcasm I will make it short but explain to me that a stable salt is 100% eco-friendly, that leaves me speechless ...

So all stable salt is ecological, if I extrapolate of course. Excuse me obamot you didn't convince me at all.

I would like to have an opinion on perlite which I am a big consumer in the field of gardening. Is this a solution?

Regarding vermiculite which is a laminated mica (it is a pleonasm), I read in a thread that it was not a thermal insulator, is it true? It's amazing because its lamellar structure traps a lot of air. One of its characteristics is its capacity to store and restore humidity. I use this characteristic commonly in sowing and transplanting. Is it a good in insulation or a big inconvenience?

I am only an amateur gardener, I am a chemist and physicist.

cordially
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by manitou22 » 09/01/13, 23:38

Hi,
For wood, there is mineralization: http://www.materiauxnaturels01.fr/wood-bliss-hm1-c0-49-C63.html
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by Obamot » 10/01/13, 01:47

cortejuan wrote:not being a lover of sarcasm I will make it short but explain to me that a stable salt is 100% eco-friendly, that leaves me speechless ...

So all stable salt is ecological, if I extrapolate of course. Excuse me obamot you didn't convince me at all.

I am only an amateur gardener, I am a chemist and physicist.

cordially

First I find you relatively aggressive all of a sudden. So your "cordially"I put it on sale ... : Lol:

If you are "chemist"You must know: boron salt" that's what it is! "" Conviction "has nothing to do with that.

Regarding the eco-balance sheet, list materials that combine these qualities as much! There is cellulose wadding without boron salt, but I don't know what it puts in it for fireproofing (if there is one).

By the way, it seems that you have not read my link. Boron salt, there is really very little, just enough. And as it is a salt, the extended duration of its protection is there all its advantage (amha) it will remain there until the demolition of the house! It is at this stage that we must be careful and recycle it: obviously!

It is boric acid that would be dangerous in a (volatile) home, not salt. Since you are a chemist, tell us if there is boric acid in boron salt (I don't believe it ...) In addition, when I offered you cellulose wadding treated with boron salt , you did not tick at first, strange !?

I have confirmation of its non-dangerousness for the use for which it is intended, by our chemist, former prof. to the uni and researcher in chemistry for many years at the Institut Battelle, point barre. I am not asking you to believe me, nor to believe it, nor am I trying to convince you. It is with regret if that does not do you service.

Bonsoir.
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