Insulation insulation filling the voids of a wall?

[Obamot]

You have to go soft, no risk it does not "take" right away. And if we drill holes in the wall (that you close quickly enough with wooden trunnions of a suitable diameter ... as and when ...), the foam will come out through these holes, which will absorb the pressure but in principle the foam will mostly rise.

Here a video that shows how this foam behaves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VrmiG2XVJ0

We see that the type presented has approximately doubled in volume (see the instructions).

Put a gas mask with a cartridge adapted for this type of application! Contains a cyanide form!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4X0Fwun ... re=related

We must take into account that the foam continues to expand long after being applied, so the more you will see it go up, the more it will be necessary to go "soft" (I would say that to reach the half, it is perhaps already too much, its power to increase volume is very important, but can change from one manufacturer to another ... and it continues to inflate again tens of minutes later ... so do not be in a hurry) .. wait to see how it progresses in height ... It is also necessary to read the instructions on the bomb, to see how much recommended it is necessary compared to the volume to be filled!

If you do not have a camera to see what happens inside the void, use a led lamp and a mirror, to avoid surprises ... If you have electric cables that wander for example, you have to review the legal requirements for fire (there may be distance standards to be respected depending on the country where you are?) ... If you do not, in case of fire insurance could turn against you if you are not in the norms ...

I found in a thermal software that an air space has a lambda 0,9, 0,027 for Polyurethane (PU) and 0,04 for cork or SLS.

It proves that the real term for the air space is: lambada -> []

[chatelot16]

be careful, the polyurethane foam continues to swell after starting to harden and plug the hole: it is an advantage when the goal is to stall something solid but it is a risk to fill a whole wall

open cell polyurethane foam is less likely to overpress

there is polyurethane foam component 2, we mix and we have about 30second to pour before it starts to foam, so with the right material to send into the hole before ca ca ca fall well as low as possible on the already foamed area

I used polyurethane voss chemie, it was closed cell for windsurfing, expensive and solid, but it also open cell with expantion rate much larger so more economical

I also tried something fun: polyurethane resin to drown the electronic circuit: this type of resin makes bubbles with the slightest trace of moisture: conclusion, I make a mixture of resin and fine sawdust (forcing a little wet) after a few minutes the mixture starts to foam abundantly ... it's fun but this resin is not cheaper than the real resin to make foam

another remark, put insulation in a vacuum will make a small improvement ... must we put the price of polyurethane?

I will have it to do, I would prefer a loose bulk insulation, even if you have to drill a lot of big hole to put it in place ... the plaster to close the holes does not cost much

[Obamot]

Let's say that I had thought of that, with a "top flight" solution after consulting our chemist (who had found the idea excellent) for a large construction where we did not have direct access to these technical voids easily (and which were "fashionable" in this type of construction of the 70s ").

It was a question of using a compressor, not to directly squirt the mixture, but to inflate a big balloon (of a certain thickness) with the product in suspension inside. The goal is not only to project, but to create a significant overpressure in the space to be treated during the spraying of the product. Thanks to this differential pressure suddenly caused by the programmed explosion of the balloon (placed constrained by a hermetic ring against an orifice of a certain importance drilled in the center of the wall), the product was attracted de facto to the outside by the pressure difference which would at the same time plug holes and cracks ... until everything was sealed in a few seconds!

Advantage: it really did not use much foam - compared to the usual method - and the hermetic was perfect in the treated area! In addition the chosen foam having elastic properties, the insulation would not be lost with slight settlement of the construction!

It was a bit the same process used with tire puncture bombs, combined with the principle of air bag. Sliding the ring forward, the balloon burst through a needle placed in the center of the stroke of the device.

The guys who did that, had to be equipped with double ear protections (helmet and internal ..) to avoid any risk of getting caught in the eardrums when it caused the explosion of the balloon.

[Aumicron]

Bearpanda, just a note: 30 45 euros / m² to get a maximum R 1.75 is a bit high.

Have you considered removing your plasterboard brick and replacing it with a plasterboard + insulation complex of about 11cm for an R> 3?

Good luck for the future.

[dedeleco]

Pay attention to polyurethane in addition to certain poisons (isocyanides),
http://www.dotapea.com/polyurethane.htm
http://cesifs.emse.fr/BULLES/BULLES-1/a ... iques.html
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion ... C3%A9thane
the hardening foam stuck in a rigid space has a huge force that can flip the partition so badly.
For houses sagging by subsidence of the ground too soft or dry, one raises tons of wall by injecting polyurethane foam in the ground of the foundations which go back of what is necessary !!
see Uretek:
http://www.uretek.fr/index.php
also in a narrow, long and tall 4cm space I would be very careful.

Part of my questions comes from this: I found in a thermal software that an air knife has a lambda of 0,9, against 0,027 for Polyurethane (PU) and 0,04 for cork or SLS.
So that I would pass the 0,9 wall R to 1,75 with PU (always according to a small grinder found on the Net, if someone has the means to check this result Very Happy)

What is problematic is the thermal convection which varies enormously according to the exact conditions of difference of temperature and dimensions.
Also see for a simple estimate:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post151699.html#151699
which shows that the lambda of apparent conductivity for 4cm = 40mm of air knife is equal 5,5W / m2 ° K / 0,04m = 0,22W / m ° K and not 0,9 !!
which also shows that it is necessary to block the convection and the heat radiation by placing some intermediate sheets all 5 10mm 4 8 layers of paper or better glossy metallized plastic sheets (commercial insulation) threaded or pushed in which will block the radiation (very low albedo) and convection as well as polyurethane.

[Bearpanda]

Aumicron wrote:

Have you considered removing your plasterboard brick and replacing it with a plasterboard + insulation complex of about 11cm for an R> 3?

According to you, how much will such a solution come back to (all included, ie removal of rubble, construction of the partition, etc.)
Moreover, I fear that the good summer insulation (provided by the platrière brick) does not diminish

Not easy to reconcile cost, winter and summer insulation

[Bearpanda]

Dedeleco wrote:

the hardening foam stuck in a rigid space has a huge force that can flip the partition so badly.

Yes, I am aware of it, but I do not think to apply it myself and to appeal to a specialized company, .... if I find one!
Does anyone know of a company of this type.

[chatelot16]

in my opinion it will be even more difficult for a profesionel

the solution to avoid a dangerous push is to fill a very low height of foam at a time: to pour just the liquid it takes to fill just 10cm of height ... to wait a whole day that the expansion is well complete before put the next layer ... at this rate it will take a month to go to the ceiling. it's just good for the one who does it himself. it will only take a few minutes a day ...

so that the liquid poured through a hole at the top, wets the wall and inflates the other way down you could put the mixture of 2 component in a small plastic bag that will fall well down, and burst down swelling

but finally it's complicated ... break the wall and put a normal insulation of good thickness would not be so stupid

[zorglub]

I also had these insulation problems and I used vermiculite. easy to implement. for the passage of possible cables, son, I installed at the four corners electrical sleeves diameter 16 mm with needle which in case of work will facilitate the implementation
nb: vermiculite has the advantage of not being safe for rats or others because if it engages in the layer, they drown
installed for over twenty years, never had problems

[chatelot16]

vermiculite is perhaps the best solution: it goes down well, it does not go down

and if the rat and mouse are drowning, it's good too

and it is incombustible ... even if it goes into electric boxes it will not catch fire at the slightest thread loose