Okofen heating curve adjustment, lower consumption?

[dhaulagiri]

Not woken up well this morning, because I also heat up in the evening Otherwise, for sure I would spend comfortable 19 ° to 17 ° for the famous slot 20h. Sorry for the blunder ...

The comfort ranges at 19 ° are therefore as follows:
Mo Tu We Th Fr: 4:30 to 6:30 / 15h30 - 19h
Me: 4h30 - 19h
Sa Di: 5h30 - 20h

This is earlier than departures presence: an attempt to account for inertia ...

[dhaulagiri]

2) And the walls? insulation ???

Walls: hollow blocks of 20 + glass wool of 7,5 + brick of 5.
Double glazing "full PVC" everywhere for 2 weeks

The insulation of the supporting slab of the ceiling: glass wool of 20 for the moment. I'm going to do it again at the end of the summer, but I don't know yet what I'm going to wear. Besides, I have to go for a walk on the ad hoc threads for advice ...

Floor: slab on small crawl space (inaccessible). No specific insulating material and no intervention possible: my Achilles heel with some "regulatory" thermal bridges for the time (house of 1983), if I may say so (shear walls for example)

[Alain G]

I'm surprised your comfort zone is below 20 because here our thermostats are generally set at 21C with however much colder outside temperatures!

You must surely clothe you more than us in your homes!

[manet42]

-Even type of insulation (called average) home ... Construction 1970.

-19 ° / 19,5 ° of atmosphere, it is very healthy for the health .. obviously we are not in "marcel" (typically French sleeveless jersey!).

JC

[Did67]

You do not have to explain at length how it works because I have a very good idea, tell me only what improvements have been made when replacing the Adaptive mode.

Here is my way of seeing a system that will be functional and easy to use;


Peace and love my friends!

1) Yes. It is an alternative.

2) I think that European boiler manufacturers have positioned themselves in a market dominated by oil fired boilers and compact gas.

The "buffer" does not always pass: question of space (on existing installations), but also psychological reaction ('it's more complicated ... ").

See the insistence of brands to indicate that their boiler does not need a buffer.

3) How do you manage condensation (thus need cold returns) and low temperature heating floors with your system ??? (who have their followers in a market where energy is expensive and scarce) ...

4) I really don't know why Okofen dropped its self-adapting system which combined the advantages of 3V regul and automatic curve learning ...

Peace and love.

[Did67]

I'm surprised your comfort zone is below 20 because here our thermostats are generally set at 21C with however much colder outside temperatures!

For public buildings, the law provides 19 °.

In homes, the commonly accepted standard is 19 or 20 ° (except elderly - nursing home, etc.).

I think we have a big difference: the expensive energy for a long time (1 l of fuel at around 0,90 €) and therefore since the various oil crises, the concern to consume less (cars at 4 or 5 l / 100 km; heating to 19 or 20 ° maximum in "comfort" mode with night reduction ...]

This represents costs in the order of € 1 to € 000 per house per family (for average insulation and modern fuel or gas or pellets). We see "rising" the "thermal insecurity", that is to say families who can no longer properly heat their house (especially if "thermal wrecks" + electric heating) ...

[dedeleco]

Except that I pay in taxes almost 3 times the heating in housing and property taxes !!!

So logic reduce those taxes by voting differently ????

[Alain G]

You do not have to explain at length how it works because I have a very good idea, tell me only what improvements have been made when replacing the Adaptive mode.

Here is my way of seeing a system that will be functional and easy to use;


Peace and love my friends!

1) Yes. It is an alternative.

2) I think that European boiler manufacturers have positioned themselves in a market dominated by oil fired boilers and compact gas.

The "buffer" does not always pass: question of space (on existing installations), but also psychological reaction ('it's more complicated ... ").

See the insistence of brands to indicate that their boiler does not need a buffer.

3) How do you manage condensation (thus need cold returns) and low temperature heating floors with your system ??? (who have their followers in a market where energy is expensive and scarce) ...

4) I really don't know why Okofen dropped its self-adapting system which combined the advantages of 3V regul and automatic curve learning ...

Peace and love.

1) It is especially simple, which would allow to put more on the tampon!


2) It's a good reason! (Location)


3) Such systems exist in much less complicated here!

How you manage condensation (thus need cold returns) and low temperature heating floors with your system ???

I do not understand what you mean, please explain to me!
For the low temperature, I have spoken of a simple mechanical mixer.


4) It's a shame!



P and L!

[Alain G]

I'm surprised your comfort zone is below 20 because here our thermostats are generally set at 21C with however much colder outside temperatures!

For public buildings, the law provides 19 °.

In homes, the commonly accepted standard is 19 or 20 ° (except elderly - nursing home, etc.).

I think we have a big difference: the expensive energy for a long time (1 l of fuel at around 0,90 €) and therefore since the various oil crises, the concern to consume less (cars at 4 or 5 l / 100 km; heating to 19 or 20 ° maximum in "comfort" mode with night reduction ...]

This represents costs in the order of € 1 to € 000 per house per family (for average insulation and modern fuel or gas or pellets). We see "rising" the "thermal insecurity", that is to say families who can no longer properly heat their house (especially if "thermal wrecks" + electric heating) ...

What I notice being a member and reader here from the very beginning, is that you consume more liters of fuel oil or any other source of energy for the same surface to be heated as us while you have very complex heating systems , you also pay your systems much more than us, sometimes more than double or even triple, if I amortized the purchase of these very expensive systems, it breaks my back a little!

Hopefully your building standards are as severe as ours which moves from year to year, because I think the problem is there!

Well we save on heating to put more in our big automatic cars! LOL!

[Did67]

3) Such systems exist in much less complicated here!

How you manage condensation (thus need cold returns) and low temperature heating floors with your system ???

I do not understand what you mean, please explain to me!
For the low temperature, I have spoken of a simple mechanical mixer.
:D

If you want to benefit from the condensation (a savings potential of around 10%, all other things being equal):

- you need a return that is as cold as possible, ideally less than 30 °: it is the contact of the combustion gases with the return water in the condenser which will cause the condensation and therefore the "gains";

- ideally, heating underfloor heating (which I do), with returns that can be 24 to 28/30 °:

- and you have to adapt your starting temperature losses of your house (to balance the losses of calories) or regulate the flow through taps ...

As I explained to you, the interior thermostat has the disadvantage of being late given the time it takes for the heat to pass through the tiles - it is therefore necessary to regulate even before the energy injected into the tile has had its effects ...

Now, I want your "self-adapting" regulation to learn its shifts on its own.

But I still haven't understood how, without an outside sensor, it will know that the outside temperature will go up or down, depending on the weather.

Let’s say noon, noon. Temp inner = 12 ° (my house is in equilibrium).

The outer Temp down (the running time on snow).

Inside, it still happens nothing!

My outside sensor senses the drop. The regulation goes up the start time. The slab receives more calories (which will "come out" only two or three hours later!). So the system anticipates the cold that will come into the house.

If I work at the room thermostat, nothing would happen for 2 or 3 hours.

But after two or three hours, my temperature would drop (because inputs have remained constant: the cold has passed through my walls).

The regulation would react. The starting time would go up. But it will take 2 or 3 hours before this heat "comes out" of the slab ...

So the system would be late.

Same thing if at midday, suddenly, heat stroke, the outside temp goes up!

And as said, I don't know how your "self-learning" regulator knows this midday if it will heat up or if it will drop to anticipate in the right direction!


The most interesting thing is therefore to combine cold return as continuous as possible (if you stop the circulation, you stop the condensation) to optimize the condensation and "modulation" of the starting temperature (to just meet the needs and stabilize the desired temperature) by outdoor sensor.

So the motorized V3V with regulation by external probe meets the specifications.

I swear to you that with my oil-fired boiler before and with the pellet-fueled one now, I have the 20 ° I want to within one or two tenths whatever the external variations. This is a question that I do not ask myself. Without interior probe before (now, I have one because I also have an insert, just for the "fun", but which hisses anyway; I wanted that the regulation takes into account of it).

All this with just at the start the settings that make our friend scream so much!

NB: we speak of "complicated systems". Let's take a look at this. If we put aside the boiler (which is a question in itself, which I want to discuss also, since I have accumulated a lot of data before deciding), this control mode requires: a circulator (like any heating in a flat house - not enough thermosyphon); a motorized 3-way valve (go 150 €; on a simpler system you also need a 3-way valve); regulation (400 € for complex models associated with our boilers which also manage other functions); an outdoor sensor (not even € 50) ...

To refine, an interior probe can be useful (less than 50 €).

To compare, it would be necessary to compare the motorization of the valve with the multiplication of "self-learning" thermostatic valves. A simple tap to move by hand would already cost more (base: ten of these taps in a house like mine - against a 3-way valve).

After, there is hay made by some around the heating curve (see the latest posts from Dhaulagiri to convince himself, who does not reject the system a priori, it is childish - just a few days of patience and a very cold period of time and a milder one).

After comparing the prices on this side of the Atlantic and the other suffers from many distortions that make things a little more complicated.