The "veggie pride".

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Re: The "veggie pride".




by sen-no-sen » 16/10/16, 10:36

Janic wrote:However, and this is important, I did not intervene on what the whole society experiences, but on the philosophy of veganism which seems to me to be unrelated to what you wrote (you do not quote any writing founding of this type of movement, showing a simple market intention or even a simple ideological recovery or everything here below is of this type as soon as a change of life is proposed.)


My initial remark is based on the recovery of movement vegan (and by vegetarian extension / link) by postmodernist currents, while this one is gaining momentum.
The vegan current in itself is (I repeat) nothing new since we find the entirety of its philosophy in the currents from the Jainism.
Now if you consider that unimportant ..... : roll:
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by Obamot » 16/10/16, 14:00

.
Would simply want to eat healthy be 'ideological'?

We cannot consider that there would be a "vegan" movement ", as you let suppose by a joke here:
sen-no-sen wrote:if precisely "the established order" allows this kind of demonstration, it is good that its last do not worry many people! : Lol:

... it's a bit of a paralogism, huh : Lol: (and then "ces"if you mean"thereof" and not "proven", it's annoying ^^)

In short, because if we consider what is happening or level of awareness as well, we could tend to put people who are vegetarian in a basket in which they are not (like those who are thus called the having become individually, or were so long before any movement existed) - to have assimilated them simply by "typical purchase choice"when they go shopping, or simply because they would follow the WHO guidelines stating that because"meat produced and processed by human hands is carcinogenic"They decided to change their consumption style -"as implicitly part of this movement»(And this without having at any time had the slightest feeling of belonging or any ideological fiber dictating their conduct). It would be absurd ... The vast majority of people who consume vegetarian, do not care about such movements, they fear above all for their health and for the environment, they are above all aware "that" they have been deceived. for decades (and all kinds of things like that, realizing human pressure on the environment, that doesn't make it an ideological reflex. People in their immeasurable majority are " followers ", see the work of A Masslow, we come back to it all the time ...)

You should only see this ON the health level. This therefore necessitates a cold analysis of the ins and outs of what the health authorities dictate, what agrochemicals do, what agor-business serves us on our plate and what pretext presides over this cloth of Codex- Alimentatrius (supposed to give almost official surety to the merry-go-round of the industrialists?): And there we will quickly realize that the first of the ideologies is not public health, but well the maximization of profits and the defense of private interests (with the competition of some corrupt lawyers) ... Basically, everything based on the money and extractivism that eats us all.

In front of that there can indeed be some disparate movements, which incidentally have spotted some manipulations of opinion easy to see, but which struggle to express it simply in a pragmatic or scientific way, for lack of means (whereas in face there are pharaonic means) and because it is not their job. And still opposite, the steamroller of agro-chemistry which has understood the weaknesses to return them to its profit (if it is not itself the organizer via the lobbies in Brussels or other, through the approval of a very accommodating legislation) short, big failure of the system and which sweeps away all ethical considerations, of public health (really as such) and all that would be in the direct interest of consumers and public health, since what we see goes in the direction of any economic end self-justifying: and justifying almost any means to achieve dividends (until the murder of the too great annoyances and this at the highest summit of the apparatus of the states) with methods of culture of the secrecy, espionage and commando applied to all kinds of things hardly confessable: and this in a completely organized, planned, and calculated ...

It is a bit of coffee to claim to give any force to such a movement (if indeed there is a level capable of influencing as a sphere of influence: while in the end, but in a form more political: it would indeed have to exist), in a null and inefficient state, so much it is embryonic, even if hardly opportunist (those who are behind that should question themselves about their real motivations, of course, but then it The same should be done for "those opposite", and there is no picture.

So as Janic says, still happy that there is an active minority. But haro on the label collage.
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by Obamot » 16/10/16, 14:28

All of the above to get here:

sen-no-sen wrote:Your remark is symptomatic and goes entirely in the direction of the desired goal: you confuse the growing popular consciousness on the animal condition, and the recovery of the movement by the economic-political sphere.
Exactly the same thing happened with ecology in the 70s: it was phagocytosed by "useful idiots" in order to make it anecdotal and soluble in the commercial system.

I believe it has never been so true as today ...!

You just have to look at the label of BIO products from supermarkets to decipher what they contain: white sugar, hydrogenated palm oil (as an addition of fats), all kinds of additives which has nothing to do as consumers (to change the color or texture) and of course the ball of devitalized food by its simple continuous bagging, without the health authorities intervening in the least! It may well be "ORGANIC" at the origin, it no longer has the virtues. If we wanted this type of products to be eligible for sale, we would have to remove all harmful aspects and above all: either freeze them, or have an extremely short sales chain: and therefore the products should be produced and then processed on site. their places of sale ... Currently, there are only catering stands selling potentially carcinogenic products if they contain meat, and the bakery department whose high-value organic breads are produced and delivered industrially, while the production "on the spot" concerns industrial bakery products (and that it should be the reverse): we walk on the head ...

My question to Janic follows: "ORGANIC" fruits and vegetables sold in conventional supermarkets, are they recommendable or does it hardly change from other products (apart from the fact that the pesticides used are biodegradable)? If not, is it still a "better" compared to unregulated production (ie with approved pesticides) a better for consumers and why? Because even if we are going to source directly from "ORGANIC" producers who produce mass production, what will we have more? There I am in the process of listing all the "organic" producers who are in my area, but what is the point if they have an intensive model production similar to that of the "non-organic" model, to which we have no only substitute the type of products with which they are sprayed ...

I fear that the "BIO" pushes us to launch ourselves in the production of food products, which is a shame since the development of "BIO" products had to assume the opposite ... We are swimming in the middle of a paradox.
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by sen-no-sen » 16/10/16, 14:40

Obamot wrote: The vast majority of people who eat vegetarian, do not care about such movements, they fear above all for their health and for the environment, they are especially aware "that" they have been deceived for decades (and all sorts of things of this kind, like being aware of the pressure of the human being on the environment, that does not make it an ideological reflex for all that. People in their immeasurable majority are "followers", see the works from A Masslow, we come back to it all the time ...)


Indeed, and we can make exactly the same remark on the ecological movements of the 70s: the consciousness of the degradation of the biosphere (factual thing) has been "coated" by a so-called left ideology (of the Trotskyist type), leading to a deviation and a neutralization of "political ecology".
Who represents political ecology in France? C.Duflot, V.Placé .... : roll:
The same thing happens for the vegan current and the like.

The same thing was achieved on the questions of immigration by the FN ...
The process is always the same: use useful idiots or scarecrows to grab a subject and make it their exclusive.
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by Obamot » 16/10/16, 14:49

Yes, except that I have just modestly demonstrated that there was no reason to speak of "currents / movements" there (we are not / no longer in constructivist epistemology which was confiscated by the modern dictate of psychiatry) we have to go towards a broader political reflection, like the one you do in the definition to consolidate of extractivism ...
Recovery is done de facto by supermarkets that deliver “pseudo-virtuous BIO labeled” products, without their content meeting the basic principles of what an “BIO” production would mean.

If you want, the recovery is done in the bud, it is offered "BIO" products on a larger scale, without however meeting the good criteria of public health.

Recovery is done through the Roman paradigm (in which we are more than ever): Panem et circenses
- bread being represented by adulterated “BIO” and games via the web and access to massively adulterated “information” which is largely manipulation, via the medium of mobile telephony / computing ....

I think that we are not going to leave the era of "every man for himself" anytime soon : Mrgreen: (Alas)
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by sen-no-sen » 16/10/16, 15:08

Obamot wrote:Yes, except that I have just modestly demonstrated that there was no need to speak of "current" there ...


Recovery is both market AND ideological, one is difficult without the other.

Would simply want to eat healthy be 'ideological'?


Ideological may not be at first, but certainly political ... therefore ideological as well! : Mrgreen:
More (or less) use of animals would be tantamount to completely revising the agro-food production method based on the excessive exploitation of the biosphere and therefore calling into question the monopolistic powers.
To question its powers is to question the EU, TAFTA and its developments etc ... etc ... so yes there is indeed a part of ideology.
"The farm of 1000 cows" is a typical example, the "batch feeds"also, this kind of exploitation is indeed the consequence of an ideology:exponential economic growth despite a downward trend in profits, to the detriment of animals and our health.
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by Obamot » 16/10/16, 15:29

Although interesting (always interesting to read you) not really what I see around me, in WHO and in the legal field ...

Basically, the ideology is no longer in a single camp, that of the totalitarian market system. So ideology yes, if that is the meaning you would like ...

There is no longer any ideology in the alterglobalist milieu (because they are ultra-minority) so I assume that there is no ideological recovery, since it is whispered in the ears of potential activists in the bud (this is the new pre-emptive model which means that ideology is only on one side, opposite in alter-globalization it is non-existent or even the "legal" putsh in Brazil, the central western plot is not even there - nobody cares about "BIO" and those who revolve around it - the central axis goes to overthrow elected power in Ukraine, attempt to knock out governments elsewhere, which do not please the central world power and superpower Washington ...)

The central axis and at our doors, it may be TOMORROW, a war in Europe against Russia, towards which the United States is pushing us via NATO.

Let's take the concept to the extreme (yes, yes, that's what I just did in my last sentence, no, no I'm not neutral) by generalizing it. We are not / no longer in the "constructivist epistemology" of the 70s (which any form of ideological or even "movements" approach supposes) this one has been confiscated by the modern dictate of psychiatry, with the setbacks that we know: the ideological recruiting diverted under the title of preemptive war, also applies here, given the strong reaction to the new paradigm inherited against our will ...) we must move towards a broader political reflection, like the one you make in the (re) definition to be consolidated of extractivism ... (and which is constantly evolving ...)

This new form of redefinition of the individual (modern psychiatry) in society is that which consists in reducing it to its simplest insignificance. No one escapes it, personal or ideological convictions besides that, are nonexistent: they are simply not taken into account from the start, we bring the individual back to his finitude in society: the cemetery ... ( We are not far from that all things considered ...)

If I still push to the extreme on the reflections of our time, the "so-called" terrorism is not only in this ball, the game of the appropriation of terrestrial resources, it is also in the confiscation of these by a minority ... Just as democracy is confiscated - since as individuals are reduced to their insignificance by psychiatry, society no longer needs to go through "them" - And we find that in the "BIO" which is "non-BiO-virtuous" and 99,9999% do not care ...
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Re: The "veggie pride".




by Janic » 16/10/16, 20:23

My question to Janic follows: "ORGANIC" fruits and vegetables sold in conventional supermarkets, are they recommendable or does it hardly change from other products (apart from the fact that the pesticides used are biodegradable)?

Difficult to assert because some supermarkets supply themselves with fresh local products which degrade less quickly than those (true or false organic) which pass through the cold chains and transport over a few times long distances.
So for fresh products, it's better than industrial products from agrochemicals anyway.
For processed products, this is more nebulous since no legislation allows the tracing of the various components. The indicated components allow, a little, to make the distinction.
If not, is it still a "better" compared to unregulated production (ie with approved pesticides) a better for consumers and why?
see above !
Because even if we are going to get our supplies directly from "ORGANIC" producers who produce mass production, what more will we have?

Compare how it is grown and what it is used for (what an honest farmer will say)
After some are affiliated with organizations (more than organic as Did says and which serve as a deposit).
There I am in the process of listing all the "BIO" producers who are in my area, but what is the point if they have an intensive model production similar to that of the "non-organic" model, to which we have no only substitute the type of products with which they are sprayed ...

If they stick to the organic specifications (even official) it gives the almost certainty of not using synthetic products. For more information, contact the producers because, in market gardening, the areas usable by each market gardener remain limited. The fact remains that, theoretically, an intensive model (according to which particular criteria) will end up as before by exhausting the soil.
I fear that the "BIO" pushes us to launch ourselves in the production of food products, which is a shame since the development of "BIO" products had to assume the opposite ... We are swimming in the middle of a paradox.

Going into agriculture, organic or not, requires skills and experience, but gardening is still possible, in any case outside large cities (large food areas should be limited to these)
Do people care about politics and its ideologies when buying a pair of shoes, a fridge or a toothbrush?
And we find that in the "BIO" which is "non-BiO-virtuous" and 99,9999% do not care ...

In a way, it's true *! But not out of indifference, but rather out of ignorance in those who want to get started, even partially, with ORGANIC (like homeopathy or any other “alternative” and alternative medicine) because they are fed up with scandals over the food products they are paying for in terms of health such as drugs and vaccines that poison their users.
It takes time to make the shift to better food (even recovered by supermarkets)
At the same time the more the demand increases, the more the risks of poor quality follow it, but we have to deal with it. For the most demanding, there are specialized stores, where generally the products are of better quality.

* in the same way the vegans also do not care to know if it is political or not, their research is done on the products, not on political ideologies. (for those who are interested in reality, and not a vision purely media, just register on the forums dedicated VG and to read there what is very far from what Sen no sen writes.)
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