Is growth to infinity possible?

[stone-ernest]

"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist."

Said like that, the cause seems to be heard: common sense indicates that one cannot grow indefinitely in a finite world.

And yet.
If we compare the growth of OECD countries with their energy consumption, we see that the growth in energy consumption is increasingly weak, while GDP growth continues on the same curve.
Why?
Simply because we are no longer in the era of mines and steam engines.
The so-called intangible elements weigh more and more in the GDP. Services now account for something like 80% of growth.
The growth obtained by Microsoft's launch of VISTA is a few billion dollars, and only a few tens of tons of polycarbonate to make CDs. Everything else is gray matter.
So, infinite growth is not as impossible as it seemed at first...

[Remundo]

These are good comments, but it all depends on what you put in the term growth. In terms of GDP, it is true that the sentence is too abrupt.

But the phrase rather targets energy consumption, and there, it has been progressing constantly for more than 50 years.

If we do not do renewable, it is sure that "infinite" growth is the vision of a mad economist.

On the contrary, if we go, then we will still have a few good centuries of energy and economic prosperity.

@+

[Christophe]

So, infinite growth is not as impossible as it seemed at first...

Disagree, based on the consumption of a finite resource (the current case), infinite growth is impossible ... or else we do not have the same definition of infinity ...

The fact that energy intensity increases does not make energy and mining resources infinite ...

Besides, if you have data in barrels / $ of GDP that interests me, I have for the moment only found relative curves, therefore, with no real values ​​... but I surely haven't looked enough. .

Now the sun can be considered, on a human scale, as an infinite source of energy.
If the society of the future will be based essentially on this energy (directly or indirectly cf thermal energy of the sea) and that it practices the recycling of materials at best then yes we will be approached can be of an infinite growth ... in the finished system: Earth + Sun.

[Tagor]

But the phrase rather targets energy consumption, and there, it has been progressing constantly for more than 50 years.

no the sentence is essentially aimed at raw material resources ...

because we are very far from efficient and effective recycling

and this will be true as long as we cannot recreate matter ...
maybe some researchers are getting there ...

in all cases and whatever the method of calculating GDP
we are all in a finite world so infinite growth
it's more than doubtful

[Christophe]

Yours it reminds me of a news: https://www.econologie.com/pib-croissanc ... -3484.html

[Remundo]

Good remarks Christophe and Tagor

[Capt_Maloche]

If you knew how I don't care, you would have a good idea of ​​infinity

[Christophe]

Bad Troll?

[Remundo]

Ahh Maloche, to get an idea of ​​infinity, you have to refer to a quote from Albert

Two things are endless: the Universe and human stupidity ... But for the Universe, I have not yet acquired absolute certainty

[Capt_Maloche]

Bad Troll?

That's it, take revenge I couldn't resist


Infinite Growth is bullshit
Cause humans would have to multiply endlessly, but we are already too numerous for the resources of our small planet, there is no longer a single tree planted randomly in big cities

Growth is an exclusively financial and ... warlike fact, it does not take into account the real needs of humans, but adapts to the economic and political climate with the help of complex financial products and risk scaffolded on rules where the insiders take their own stupid game, the situation is so complex today, such as the Sub-Prime Beuah crisis!

and we poor gullible workers, we finance all this mess because, as it takes growth not to be eaten by its neighbors, you have to create value, anything as long as it counts

it disgusts me, what a stupid life, and the worst is that I have to follow ...

so, to escape the greyness, I forume on the Econologie.com site in search of some enlightened people, who, like me, aspire to a little sweetness in this world of ...

AAAAHHHHHH! (Languid), thank you Christophe

I can make you another version if you want