The age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix

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eclectron
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by eclectron » 14/01/21, 11:53

ABC2019 wrote: it should not be forgotten, and there is no industrial substrate without an abundance of fossils.

Once again, we must distinguish the industrial substrate from the profitable world vs. the industrial substrate from a sustainable world.
The effects on resources of all kinds are absolutely not the same.
In one case you have to produce to make money, in the other case you have to produce for the need for use and less and less, since the goods are durable.

ABC2019 wrote:Making a pump or a solar water heater is not that easy.

it is true.

ABC2019 wrote:You can imagine that it will last without a fossil, but there is no known example at the moment.

Nor proof that it is impossible with renewable energies alone, since we are not trying to do so, for the sake of profitability in
profitable world .... : Mrgreen:

ABC2019 wrote:As for the general aspect of the wooden construction which is only one month old, one can doubt its durability, since that is what concerns you. The old houses in Brittany which have stood for centuries do not look like this.

We have made progress in thermal technology from these old Brittany stone houses. Hard winter without a chimney : Mrgreen:

There are plenty of ways to make wood sustainable: do not expose it to water (roof overhang), retified wood, surface burning of wood, choice of wood species ...
Therefore the durability of wood is not a problem but rather a solution for the future.
The ideal is to mix insulation / wood / stone / glass, in order to achieve bioclimatic or passive habitat

In my opinion, their "Tiny House" demonstrator lacks thermal inertia.
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by izentrop » 14/01/21, 12:15

There at 6:28, he never had to do the test and he confuses power and energy:
If while pedaling it generates 100 W, in 5 minutes it produces 100/60 X 5 = 8.3 Wh ... in addition charged in 5 minutes, the service life :?: :?:
to prepare a tea (200 grams of water that you want to bring from 20 to 100 degrees), you will need about 65.000 joules
65000/3600 X 0.6 = 10 minutes, not 4 hours ... In lowtech, you must also know how to make a rule of three : roll:
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by ABC2019 » 14/01/21, 12:42

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote: it should not be forgotten, and there is no industrial substrate without an abundance of fossils.

Once again, we must distinguish the industrial substrate from the profitable world vs. the industrial substrate from a sustainable world.
The effects on resources of all kinds are absolutely not the same.
In one case you have to produce to make money, in the other case you have to produce for the need for use and less and less, since the goods are durable.

I'm not talking to you about money, I'm talking about making steel, copper, glass, plastics, machining, ball bearings, valves, alternators, etc .... Think about what it takes upstream to make this. Even a machine tool is made from what?
We have made progress in thermal technology from these old Brittany stone houses. Hard winter without a chimney : Mrgreen:

should you know what you prefer, comfort or durability?
There are plenty of ways to make wood sustainable: do not expose it to water (roof overhang), retified wood, surface burning of wood, choice of wood species ...

You would, but still admire the aqueducts and Roman monuments in stone, and that the Gallic wooden oppidums are nothing more than hills ...
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by eclectron » 14/01/21, 15:06

ABC2019 wrote:You would, but still admire the aqueducts and Roman monuments in stone, and that the Gallic wooden oppidums are nothing more than hills ...

You're right, don't change… .we have cartoonish binarism and stupid systematism. this is what your mechanical thinking is all about.
Or Did I say that the use of wood should be systematically used everywhere?
Didn't I just say that for housing, any material should be used, where it provides real technical added value?

Interlocutor of no interest, your cure did not bring you anything….
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by Christophe » 14/01/21, 15:17

It's easier to carve, move, assemble stones than wood ... when you have slaves ... durability is a little related to the ardor of the initial task ... and today we will call the slaves gray energy ...

Otherwise the oldest houses in the world still have important wooden parts ...

https://www.neozone.org/insolite/les-20 ... -occupees/
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by ABC2019 » 14/01/21, 15:56

Christophe wrote:It's easier to carve, move, assemble stones than wood ... when you have slaves ... durability is a little related to the ardor of the initial task ... and today we will call the slaves gray energy ...

Otherwise the oldest houses in the world still have important wooden parts ...

certainly, and Notre Dame Cathedral also had its original framework until ...
but hey the wooden towns were regularly the prey of fires anyway.
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by Christophe » 14/01/21, 16:34

Bin stone frames are rare! : Mrgreen:

And Rome burned too ...
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by ABC2019 » 14/01/21, 17:01

Christophe wrote:Bin stone frames are rare! : Mrgreen:

And Rome burned too ...

yes of course the poor neighborhoods were also probably made of wood!
not sure we want to relive that!
anyway, it's still geek stuff that requires open land, so urban sprawl, therefore cars ... a concentrated habitat in the city is much more ecological in my opinion. And apparently they save gas, but they use it anyway, they didn't go back to the wood stove (or there is no real need for a Norwegian pot, we leave the soup hot on the stove). Having said that, I have a friend who really made a home with a wood stove and water heater.
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by eclectron » 14/01/21, 19:47

@ABC This little chatterbox game and I don't want to be wrong and therefore at best I am intellectually dishonest, at worst I am really stupid, get tired. (idem thermal agitation episode ... : roll: )

However, for those who are interested, a wooden building of around 900 years.
Did you say sustainable?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavkirke_d%27Urnes
Samples of wood taken from the base of the building indicate that the trees used were felled between 1129 and 1131


ABC2019 wrote:
I'm not talking to you about money, I'm talking about making steel, copper, glass, plastics, machining, ball bearings, valves, alternators, etc .... Think ...

well yes, precisely, think about it, doing all this with renewable energies is not impossible but today simply overpriced, given that the entire profitable society is structured around low-cost fossil fuels.
You are not talking about money but this time, it is wrong to omit this determining factor on the choices of society. Let us say rather the non-choice of society ... (due to the determinisms imposed by the profitability of money)

ABC2019 wrote:
We made progress in thermal since these old stone houses of Brittany. Hard winter without a chimney ...

should you know what you prefer, comfort or durability?

Again and again this cartoonish binarism, not to say primary. And why not comfort precisely thanks to durability?
Sustainability implies frugality in resources, today unnecessarily wasted to make money.
It is certain that today, the comfort in our society designed around money flow and therefore flows of everything, is very expensive in resources.
So with the primary binarism which cannot intellectually extract itself for 2 seconds from the determinisms of the profitable world, we necessarily oppose comfort and durability.
In a sustainable world this opposition just makes no sense, since sustainability in fact implies frugality of resources, why would this have a negative impact on comfort?
"My home has positive energy lasts for centuries", how should I freeze them in winter ????
According to what principle?
On the other hand in your Breton stone hut, designed centuries ago where the thermal power of buildings was non-existent, there you have to foolishly burn cubic meters of wood to compensate for the ignorance of the time and yabon for the GDP, it makes flow of firewood and therefore flow of money! : Mrgreen:
How long is it possible if everyone does this ??? : roll:
Last edited by eclectron the 14 / 01 / 21, 19: 57, 1 edited once.
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Re: The Age of Low-Tech - Philippe Bihouix




by ABC2019 » 14/01/21, 19:56

eclectron wrote:@ABC This little chatterbox game and I don't want to be wrong and therefore at best I am intellectually dishonest, at worst I am really stupid, get tired. (idem thermal agitation episode ... : roll: )

However, for those who are interested, a wooden building of around 900 years.
Did you say sustainable?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavkirke_d%27Urnes
Samples of wood taken from the base of the building indicate that the trees used were felled between 1129 and 1131


yeah at the same time if you read there are more than 28, and i think the construction is more solid than what the two zozos show us.

And we don't cook in a church in general.

ABC2019 wrote:
I'm not talking to you about money, I'm talking about making steel, copper, glass, plastics, machining, ball bearings, valves, alternators, etc .... Think ...

well yes, precisely, think about it, doing all this with renewable energies is not impossible but today simply overpriced, given that the entire profitable society is structured around low-cost fossil fuels.
You are not talking about money but this time, it is wrong to omit this determining factor on the choices of society. Let us say rather the non-choice of society ... (due to the determinisms imposed by the profitability of money)

if it's overpriced, it's because it takes a lot of human work to do it, because in fact in the end you only pay humans.

Can't you see the problem with using techniques that require a lot of human work per person?

Again and again this cartoonish binarism, not to say primary. And why not comfort precisely thanks to durability?

oh yes it's true why not like? : roll:
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