Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis

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Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by Christophe » 08/10/08, 20:06

Tonight on FR3: Coins for Convictions

To see in stream here: http://programmes.france3.fr/pieces-a-c ... 965-fr.php

Purchasing power: the profiteers of the crisis

The fall in purchasing power is the main concern of the French, far ahead of health or employment. For more than a year, prices have exploded, and soaring oil prices and food raw materials have come into question.

Cereals, oil companies, agribusiness giants and big-box retailers all say the same thing: the rise in raw materials has forced them to inflate their prices. But is this really the only reason? Can nothing be done against this outbreak that strangles French households? Did not some people use this alibi to increase their tariffs excessively, taking advantage of the crisis? The lack of competition between the agri-food industry or between retail chains has further aggravated the waltz of labels. To fight against this French evil, the government has passed a new law: the law of modernization of the economy (LME). It is supposed to change the game, finally introduce a little competition and, therefore, lower prices.

But, in reality, doesn't this law serve other interests? The journalists of "Exhibits" investigated the heart of a very opaque system, in which fortunes are made to the detriment of consumers. The reports: Who benefits from the price increase? - Who makes wheat with wheat? - Oil: the beginning of the end?


What makes me "a bit" laughing about the notion of purchasing power is that, supposedly it is only decreasing while: everything that was bought by someone was sold by someone else...You follow me?

Interview of the show to see, the Floch Prigent on the peakoil: http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDt5KmVhD8
Last edited by Christophe the 09 / 10 / 08, 20: 41, 3 edited once.
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by gilgamesh » 08/10/08, 20:24

What is glaring for companies is that the costs go up without stopping and in principle it would be necessary to sell more and more to remain profitable - but it is impossible because the needs and also the money available to buy are limited. In recent times we have solved this by imports of China or we have a huge added value 10 -20 the purchase price and it leads to a situation or nothing more produce at home ...
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by Christophe » 09/10/08, 09:25

Here is a brief summary of the various infos of this Pieces à convictions.
Here is the Stream video for those who have the time: http://programmes.france3.fr/pieces-a-c ... 965-fr.php


a) The prices of large surfaces that go up!

- At first the journalist makes a lawsuit of intention to the big distributor: it looks like he blames them for ... to marry! And not to SURMARGER ... The trade of a trader is to MARGER it is not that the problem! There really was an error of analysis grâve!

- Proof of this error of monumental analysis of the journalist: a director of System U proves black and white that System U makes more margin on a "U product" than on a big brand all this by selling it for less. The following sentence of the journalist "they make too many margins that's why the prices go up" ... : Evil:

This journalist should be fired! And to say that I have already been contacted by the team Piece Conviction about the Gillier Pantone ... well I will know that their objectivity low wing!

- There are 7 retail groups in France, so no competition (good?)

- According to this report: we can only do its run in the great distrubtion ... Another lack of analysis! They would have done better to go compare the prices with small traders (butcher, baker ...) for 1 can break this popular thought that is to think of doing good business in supermarkets!

- The franchisee (shopi et cie ...) buys more than the franchisor (a group of large retailers) sells directly to the customer. It's a lamentable system that goes bankrupt!

- Law of Economic Modernization: allows decreasing prices currently "prohibited" (whether we buy 1kg or 20 Tons the supplier price must be the same for everyone! I have a little trouble believing it ...) and increase in the number of supermarkets (> 1000m²). But in the end we remain skeptical about the effects. Between 1 strongly competitive region and another reliably there are 10% differences on the average basket.

- A family shows a pack of pasta ... 4 kg! kk1 knows where we can buy them?

b) Agricultural speculation

- I learned that anything (you, me) can speculate on the price of wheat ... we can buy it as a classic action! I find it profoundly immoral ... that we can play with the industrial results ok but with the hunger of people I find this way ...

- All the guys interviewed (speculator, pension fund ...) say that (necessarily) it's not their fault: it's the system. Pov band Cons!

- Wheat: + 70% in 2007. Some farms doubled their margins.

- All the agricultural prices of the planet are fixed in Chicago (for those who did not know it yet): explain me pkoi a French wheat and a Chinese wheat must have the same price !!!

- Pension funds and hedge funds have largely speculated on wheat and corn last year after they do not come to tell me that it is EXCLUSIVELY the fault of agrofuels!

- In 2007, a kg of wheat leaving the mill went from 0.18 € to 0.28 € for a selling price of 0.40 €. The wheat mills therefore lost money on the "mill" part (because they also have a trading part where they made a lot of money). Soufflet mill turnover: € 500 million.

- Cargill: 160 000 employees for 4 000 $ M in net profits per year

- J. Ziegler: it is necessary to prohibit the speculation on the products of 1ere necessity (+ 1)

c) Oil

- current production: 86 M barrels / day. Probable maximum production: 95 M b / d

- North Sea: 3 / 4 exhausted. Extraction cost: about 30 $ per barrel.

- Peakoil reaches the USA ... in 1976! So we have a previous peako despite what we can hear here and there ...

- According to Eric Laurent, the latest oil companies have invested 8 000M $ to discover new deposits. They discovered for 4 000M $ about 50% of the investment (unless doubling the selling price ...)

- A bed of an oil rig is billed ... € 500 ... I found it a bit "big". There are some who get greased on the tankers would say good!

- Total reverse 90% in royalities in Qatar. There is a lot of water in Qatari oil. Qatar is building a new city entirely dedicated to oil and gas: Energy City.

- The rise in oil in the USA has led to a drop in consumption of 0.6M b / d (on 20 M b / d of total consumption)

- A former ARAMACO claims (after leaving his post, of course ...) that all oil reserves are overvalued. For Saudi Arabia it is about 65% (but read the last point).

- Current global reserves seem overvalued by 25%

- We end with The flock Prigent who says very precisely (what is said on econo since 1 moment): that it is not possible to define a reserve in the medium term because the notion of reserve is strongly linked to the price of the product. Thus, if the price increases, deposits not considered as a reserve, which are economically exploitable / profitable, become so. In 5 years he sees the barrel at 200 $ sustainably.

In the US some wells have been abandoned with 95% of the untapped oil. Moreover we would have explored for the moment that 1 / 3 2 / 3 sedimentary basins and technology is currently accelerating (rising prices).

In short, he makes us "understand" that the 50 years of reserve in everyone's mind = pipo.
Last edited by Christophe the 09 / 10 / 08, 14: 49, 1 edited once.
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Re: Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by bham » 09/10/08, 10:21

Christophe wrote:What makes me "a bit" laughing about the notion of purchasing power is that, supposedly it is only decreasing while: everything that was bought by someone was sold by someone else...You follow me?


Thanks for the info, I watched it.
For your last remark yes I follow you but says declining purchasing power says less buying and therefore less selling ; you follow me ? : Cheesy:
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by C moa » 09/10/08, 11:30

Christophe wrote:Here is a brief summary of the various infos of this Pieces à convictions.
http://programmes.france3.fr/pieces-a-c ... 965-fr.php

For those who missed it they said we could see it in stream but I have not found where ...

a) The prices of large surfaces that go up!

- At first the journalist makes a lawsuit of intention to the big distributor: it looks like he blames them for ... to marry! And not to SURMARGER ... The trade of a trader is to MARGER it is not that the problem! There really was an error of analysis grâve!
There is a book that will come out in a long time on the Hulliez family (I think it is written like that but hey it is the owners of Auchan, Decathlon, Casto ...). They tried unsuccessfully to ban it, we learn that the family has a personal fortune of 25 billion euros and that it doubles all 5 years since 30 years. I do not know you, but I still have the impression that we are mistaken for idiots when they say that they only sell 1 or 2% max. In the report, do they explain why all the supermarket central purchasing offices are in Switzerland ??
- All the guys interviewed (speculator, pension fund ...) say that (necessarily) it's not their fault: it's the system. Pov band Cons!
+ 1 If my sources are accurate, there is a fund of speculation that wanted to open on the Belgian market a few months ago with only support for agricultural commodities. He was banned (still happy).

- Peakoil reaches the USA ... in 1976! So we have a previous peako despite what we can hear here and there ...
A country does not mean anything, that of France it happened when? If we go there, we can say that at least 90% of the wells that have produced are now exhausted .... I think this info serves only to make a little more scary.
- According to Eric Laurent, the latest oil companies have invested 8 000M $ to discover new deposits. They discovered for 4 000M $ about 50% of the investment (unless doubling the selling price ...)
It is true that we are still talking about the major benefits of tankers, we never talk about their equally important investments. We never talk about the industrial risks that are taken. It should be noted that despite the progress made in seismic and modeling, drilling success rates are still 10 to 20% in the exploration phase.
- A bed of an oil rig is billed ... € 500 ... I found it a bit "big". There are some who get greased on the tankers would say good!
500 000 € it means nothing Christophe is by day, by month for the whole life of the platform, the price of its construction ?? However, there is also talk of oil tankers but we are not talking about oil services whose profits have also exploded (SAIPEM, TECHNIP, SURF ...), Sodexho who makes the most of its profits with the cathering of platforms (offshore or onshore it's the same).
- Total reverse 90% in royalities in Qatar. There is a lot of water in Qatari oil. Qatar is building a new city entirely dedicated to oil and gas: Energy City.
It's normal, the reserves belong to the country but 90% it seems to me huge. In general, countries take 51% of the field the rest is shared between the partners. On the other hand, the production tool is considered to belong to the country but is paid in full by the partners.

- We end with The flock Prigent who says very precisely (what is said on econo since 1 moment): that it is not possible to define a reserve in the medium term because the notion of reserve is strongly linked to the price of the product. Thus, if the price increases, deposits not considered as a reserve, which are economically exploitable / profitable, become so.
I confirm, today we are working on fields where we would never have gone to 10USD a barrel. It is not by chance that all the searches stopped in 1985 and we took again dare in 1999-2000. By the way, we have never made as many important discoveries as now (Brazil, Kazakhstan, West Africa ...).
In 5 years he sees the barrel at 200 $ sustainably.
If he could already predict his price in a week, it would be good !!! : Lol: : Lol:
In the US some wells have been abandoned with 95% of the untapped oil. Moreover we would have explored for the moment that 1 / 3 2 / 3 sedimentary basins and technology is currently accelerating (rising prices).
I think I already said it here, but we consider a well exhausted when we removed between 30 and 35% of its crude. Of course it varies from field to field but it is the order of magnitude. While we will never be able to remove 100% of crude but if we improve 10% exploitability, the world reserves are immediately increased by 10%.
FYI, some wells had been resold to small farmers by the big companies in the 80-90 years because they were not profitable for these big structures but they were for the small ones (less costs but less of safety too, less interest for the environment ... : Evil: )

In short, he makes us "understand" that the 50 years of reserve in everyone's mind = pipo.
Do not worry, the crude will still be in 50 years and when we will have more synthesize the kerogen and there .... we will be left to conquer the west. : Lol: : Lol:
The question for me is especially we must devote 80% crude just to burn in our cars or our boilers ?? The question that goes with, is the planet will always accept this misuse ??
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Re: Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by Christophe » 09/10/08, 11:52

bham wrote:Thanks for the info, I watched it.
For your last remark yes I follow you but says declining purchasing power says less buying and therefore less selling ; you follow me ? : Cheesy:


1) Exactly how is it, according to c moa, that the big distribution makes profits record in this case if one bought LESS?

What bothers me (in the sense: lack of honesty on the part of the media) is that when we talk about purchasing power is at 99% of food time. Yes the food is a pretty hard compressible budget, we must eat well every day ... BUT ....we say less than the price of high technology (all inclusive), at equal performance, dropped from 30 to 40% in 1 year and that every household now has 2 flat screens, several ipod / mp3 player (or equivalent), 3 or 4 mobile subscription with the NEW PORTABLES FASHION ESPECIALLY TO NOT HAVE THE SHAME BEFORE THE COPINES OR COPAINS, several PCs ... and all these devices are VERY VERY Often renewed ...

I would like to know the CA of the food and non-food part of a large area! If kk1 has the info?

And the food that passes after all these trivialities ... then, instead of reducing or eliminating them, in your opinion what do most homes do? They are compressing the budget BOUFFE and are buying more and more 1ER PRIMERS to continue buying their useless tech shit!

In this logic: we enrich Asia, we promote the import and we ruin our campaigns / farmers (grouping megaexploitation agricultural automated and highly mechanized to meet the low cost mandatory) ...

A healthy diet is yet health!

So educating consumers to buy better could be smarter than doing a Nieme report (poor) on purchasing power and nasty distributors who do not care full pockets! Is not it Lise Lucet?

2) C moa, thank you for the clarification I am defending.

Notes for the bed: he spoke about 500 000 € ... for the installation so on the life of the offshore platform.

Excuse me but even with the integration study and logistics is very very expensive for a bed (especially saw his mouth: it was a cargo style seat year 60). I think it's largely overcharged in relation to oil tanker revenues.

In the same logic, I bet that Schlumberger has increased the prices of its drill heads with the increase of the crude: we define the sale prices compared either to cost price but a profit of exploitation of the said product.

Personally I call it a scam ... others will call it "capitalism" ...

Maybe you have the answer on the heads?

ps: c moa, marger at 2% it's obviously wrong (they talked about 20 50% in the report on food), against a net result for shareholders of 2% of sales is plausible and it's even good!
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Re: Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by C moa » 09/10/08, 12:25

Christophe wrote:1) Exactly how is it, according to c moa, that the big distribution makes profits record in this case if one bought LESS?
It's quite simple, between the time the yoghurt comes out of the factory and the moment it comes on the shelf, it went through a lot of middlemen who all belong to the large distrib and all make their mark . So the store does well 1 or 2% of margin but he bought this product at the regional purchasing office, which bought it himself at the national central purchasing department who bought it at the Swiss central. ..
You must have noticed that at every demonstration the peasants denounce the too large number of intermediaries. Yet it's like flying saucers and smart women, everyone talks about it but no one has ever seen it.
Another point where they do a lot of round. When you buy a salad, you pay immediately ruby ​​on the nail otherwise it stays in the basket salad. Well they pay their suppliers 90 or even 120 days. Imagine the cash it makes them !!! No wonder they all created homemade credit cards that also make them earn a max.
And then they sell trips, jewels, places of spectacles ...
I would like to know the CA of the food and non-food part of a large area! If kk1 has the info?
me too and especially the "direct sales to customers" part of their results, that should not weigh heavily against the activities of "trading" and "banking".

And the food that passes after all these trivialities ... then, instead of reducing or eliminating them, in your opinion what do most homes do? They are compressing the budget BOUFFE and are buying more and more 1ER PRIMERS to continue buying their useless tech shit!
You are right but unfortunately it is a choice of summative CON.

2) C moa, thank you for the clarification I am defending.

Notes for the bed: he spoke about 500 000 € ... for the installation so on the life of the offshore platform.

Excuse me but even with the integration study and logistics is very very expensive for a bed (especially saw his mouth: it was a cargo style seat year 60). I think it's largely overcharged in relation to oil tanker revenues.
I know thank you, there are still a few months it was my bed : Lol:

Say like that, I find it too excessive, I think the journalist misunderstood, in my opinion, they had to take the bill of the neighborhood life divided by the number of beds. So you find the rooms, common areas (cinema rooms, gym, bar ...), offices and all utilities (electricity generation, drinking water ...).
In the same logic, I bet that Schlumberger has increased the prices of its drill heads with the increase of the crude: we define the sale prices compared either to cost price but a profit of exploitation of the said product.

Personally I call it a scam ... others will call it "capitalism" ...

Maybe you have the answer on the heads?
Schlumberger and the other suppliers (wellheads, pipes, turbines, cranes, floats, merchants ...) respond to petroleum tankers' requests. This is the law of supply and demand so right now they are in a good position to tax their rates (most drill barges have orders two years in advance).
In their defending body, when the tankers had the beautiful role, they did not make them a gift!

ps: c moa, marger at 2% it's obviously wrong (they talked about 20 50% in the report on food), against a net result for shareholders of 2% of sales is plausible and it's even good!
2% margin I heard it not long ago (I think it was the boss of super U or Leclerc) and he insisted so much that it attracted my ear. Otherwise, 2% of turnover, it's downright huge (it's worse than the CE EDF).

Unfortunately, as you said, it is a very opaque environment so we will never really get the truth.
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Re: Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by bham » 09/10/08, 14:25

Christophe wrote:
bham wrote:Thanks for the info, I watched it.
For your last remark yes I follow you but says declining purchasing power says less buying and therefore less selling ; you follow me ? : Cheesy:


1) Exactly how is it, according to c moa, that the big distribution makes profits record in this case if one bought LESS?


To speak only of the food, the large distribution already revised its margins on the rise during the passage to the €, it then took advantage of the comparative blur € / FF to do a little what she wanted.
I think that buying less affects a larger population since this year especially, with the increase of many items of expenditure, fuel oil / heating in mind; many people are struggling to make ends meet, others, psychologically affected by these all-out increases, restrict their desire to consume.
So I think the record profits are no longer relevant now; to find them, you must either lower your margin to sell in larger quantities (see the operations "three items for the price of 2", "large volumes", ... etc.), or hope that growth and confidence return if they want to keep the same margins.
Christophe wrote:... and that every home now has 2 flat panel displays, multiple ipod / mp3 player (or equivalent), 3 or 4 mobile subscription with the NEW PORTABLES FASHION ESPECIALLY TO NOT HAVE THE SHAME BEFORE COPINES OR COPAINS, multiple PCs. ..and all these devices are VERY VERY Often renewed ... [/ b]

+ 1 but maybe we'll get back to basics! : Lol:

Christophe wrote:
In this logic: ... and we ruin our campaigns / farmers (grouping megaexploitation agricultural automated and highly mechanized to meet the low cost mandatory) ...

I'm not sure that the megaexploitations agricultural ... were constituted to answer the low cost; I think it is rather related to the expected profits and the potential for European subsidies, ... with the blessing of poisoners / pesticide manufacturers. : Evil:
Christophe wrote:Notes for the bed: he spoke about 500 000 € ... for the installation so on the life of the offshore platform.
Excuse me but even with the integration study and logistics is very very expensive for a bed (especially saw his mouth: it was a cargo style seat year 60). I think it's largely overcharged in relation to oil tanker revenues.

Yes I did not really understand either, it is to believe that the guy on the platform was doing everything to make people complain about the oil tankers; he also focused on stainless steel / chrome pipes that are worth a fortune ...
Christophe wrote:In the same logic, I bet that Schlumberger has increased the prices of its drill heads with the increase of the crude: defines the sales prices, no longer at cost price, but a profit from the operation of that product.
Personally I call it a scam ... others will call it "capitalism" ...

This is unfortunately true and more and more.

Personally I liked the intervention of Jean Ziegler (to 1H12 on the video) which condemns the maximization of profit, speaks of the Swiss bankers contributing to the International Red Cross to help the victims they create themselves, advocates the classification of staple foods as public goods, so that they are no longer speculable, tells us that the FAO declares that world agriculture can feed 12 Mds of human beings, double the current population and that consequently for him, a child who is starving today is murdered. Looks good this gentleman.
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Re: Purchasing power, the profiteers of the crisis




by C moa » 09/10/08, 15:11

bham wrote:
Christophe wrote:Notes for the bed: he spoke about 500 000 € ... for the installation so on the life of the offshore platform.
Excuse me but even with the integration study and logistics is very very expensive for a bed (especially saw his mouth: it was a cargo style seat year 60). I think it's largely overcharged in relation to oil tanker revenues.

Yes I did not really understand either, it is to believe that the guy on the platform was doing everything to make people complain about the oil tankers; he also focused on stainless steel / chrome pipes that are worth a fortune ...
Very clearly it is not necessary to cry on the tankers but you have interest to have the solid reins when you take 30% more on the initial price of the construction nothing because of the rise of the raw materials ....

One did you know by the way: : Lol:
Did you know ?? 4-5 large private oil majors (Exxon, Chevron, BP, TOTAL, Shell) account for only 12% of world oil production.
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by Pear Belle Helene » 09/10/08, 15:18

Yet it's like flying saucers and smart women, everyone talks about it but no one has ever seen it.


......... Ha good ????? I did not know that having masculine attributes made me clever ........ quickly I'm going to get a pair : Mrgreen:
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