"Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence

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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Ahmed » 07/07/16, 11:34

There is another cause for this "sabotage": it is the extraordinary affinity of the cameras to focus on the eccentric of the corner which thus becomes the symbol of the demonstration ... If this is not possible, it remains the possibility of deftly "slicing up" the coherent words of a demonstrator to make it contradictory or simply harmless.
This is the great weakness of these challenges: forced to go through the image to publicize their cause, they turn into show they do not control the use. I know many examples of such manipulations ...
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by sen-no-sen » 07/07/16, 11:46

phil53 wrote:Again zadistes are not a homogeneous group.
At least in my classes
The manufacturers pacifists, they have, goals
The violent, anarchist type. I went to some of the sites and forums, curiously there are intellectuals who have coherent speeches of the Jacovici type.
Parasites, lazy, squatters of all kinds and derivatives qualifiers.

These groups having sub groups.


Indeed, as in all human groups there are good and bad ... it is also based on this fact that most post 68 communities have failed in their emancipatory desires (eg Auroville in India).
However, he is not here to make a form of criticism of the movement ZsadistBut to understand it through the vision shared by the French population.
France remains a relatively conservative country, and the far-left movements are not generally perceived a very good eye.
Le "zadism" is part of a process of contestation as occupy wall street,the indignant ou night stand, Movements which, although starting from a correct observation, merely relayed ideologies largely overtaken by events.
His movements are all dead in the bud, because it is only a resurgence of discontent resulting most of determinism as a deep reflection on the nature of our world.
In short, a movement of the cathartic type involving individuals for the most part excluded from the system (for multiple reasons ...) such as one finds in a large number of political parties of the "extreme left" which de fact cannot attract the approval of populations in general ...
The failure will be the only likely result of this kind of challenge.
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Ahmed » 07/07/16, 12:46

I find Zadism above movements "indignant" or the same, since it is a fairly frontal challenge on a specific point, unlike others who are content to beg amenities from governments presumed to be concerned about the common good and detached from major economic interests, which is absolute nonsense.
As for the French conservatism, it's more of a colonization phenomenon by ideology economist and this has obviously not surprising given the rallying of all the parties to it ... As you suggest he is not even sure that all decolonization zadistes have operated their vis-à-vis this fantasy ideology or other societal visions obsolete today.
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by sen-no-sen » 07/07/16, 20:36

Ahmed wrote:I find Zadism above movements "indignant" or the same, since it is a fairly frontal challenge on a specific point, unlike others who are content to beg amenities from governments presumed to be concerned about the common good and detached from major economic interests, which is absolute nonsense.


certainly the zadisme is characterized by an operational aspect that has no other movements, however, the ideology is defended succession of romantic anti-capitalism and a very idealistic homecoming, making sense his movements are not viable in the duration.
Our Lady of the moors is a crystallization point which symbolizes a clash or ecology seems to be an excuse rather than a wish.
So many are the social issues that mobilize certain types of individuals (black bloc, No Border's, zadistes etc ...) with specific profiles (social determinism requires), causes to defend (undocumented, refugees, dam) are usually excuses to allow a confrontation between an authority in the pay of economic monopolies and individuals lost in the system .
In this sense all her movements seems to me up an inter-group process to drowned most of the problems in a show that larger world do not understand.

It will be noted --toute proportion kept between the actors of course - that the thugs and the different types of protest (night stand Zsadist and co) are indirect allies of the system by neutralizing their often violent actions (or too demonstrative) occupied the position should the massesBy rejection.
The case of "night standing" is a model of its kind since the --certes naïf-- movement had a number of interesting ideas, unfortunately, very quickly and this one was entirely swallowed up by fringe any hair, anarcho-troskystes and with some degradation vehicles, theft, assault, and rape was quickly destroyed.
Excluding this procedure is now routine in virtually any social or societal movements, and those to the delight of those in power ...
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Ahmed » 07/07/16, 21:55

But this procedure is now routine in almost every social or societal movements, for the delight of those in power ...

... Who do not hesitate to provoke confrontation or to delegate breakers if necessary: ​​it is the great flaw of this opposition style.
At the same time, we must agree that it is difficult to get out of a show, like the rest of the policy and put forward ideas ...
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by sen-no-sen » 07/07/16, 22:47

Ahmed wrote:
But this procedure is now routine in almost every social or societal movements, for the delight of those in power ...

... Who do not hesitate to provoke confrontation or to delegate breakers if necessary: ​​it is the great flaw of this opposition style.
At the same time, we must agree that it is difficult to get out of a show, like the rest of the policy and put forward ideas ...


If it is clear that for several decades the government had recourse to "strike breakers", it does not seem to me, despite what many people still believe, that there are individuals who would still be mandated to directly discredit and intentional way of social movements.
And it is also this which appears to me the most disturbing!
Indeed, the "strike breakers" intervened at a time when the popular masses were still likely to make things happen, and governments still capable of action.
At the time today era of cybernetics, social relations are actually perfectly determined, more than ever.
The only intentional thing can be attributed to the authority being the choice of the route and its string of ... journalists, media magnifying glass and social networks do the rest ...
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Gaston » 08/07/16, 10:25

sen-no-sen wrote:If it is clear that for several decades the government had recourse to "strike breakers", it does not seem to me, despite what many people still believe, that there are individuals who would still be mandated to directly discredit and intentional way of social movements.
Indeed, it is not necessary to "send" thugs.

Given that the violent individuals are already present on the spot, it suffices to give some "innocent" instructions to the police (for example to intervene only after the violence to apprehend the people in flagrante delicto) to obtain the desired images.
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Ahmed » 08/07/16, 11:17

Indeed, the times have changed and if "the popular masses" were capable, formerly, of impelling a real change *, it is on the one hand because there were objective conditions and on the other hand that the objectives of these masses were favorable to the ruling class ** (although neither one nor the other is aware of it).
There is hardly any reason to believe, concerning radio-controlled breakers, that the old recipes are abandoned; the toughening of repression during the demonstrations against the "labor" law clearly shows this. Opponents' demands are clearly on the defensive and are set in a context where governments have chosen austerity and are unwilling to give up the "nibbling" of everything that had been won previously. There again, a cybernetic question (I would more readily speak of dialectic, but it is consistent).
This is an exciting time for lucid observers (as much as possible), but full of disappointment for all those who suffer without understanding ... and when I speak of disappointment, I'm small ... :frown:

* A change in the distribution of social wealth and living conditions, but by endorsing the sociopolitical form which determines the current situation ... : roll:
** In this sense, precisely, that coincided with these objective conditions.
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by sen-no-sen » 08/07/16, 17:26

Gaston wrote:Indeed, it is not necessary to "send" thugs.
Given that the violent individuals are already present on the spot, it suffices to give some "innocent" instructions to the police (for example to intervene only after the violence to apprehend the people in flagrante delicto) to obtain the desired images.


The methods used today are particularly pernicious.
There are no job breakers directly, this is achieved in a much more subtle via networks (including anti-fascist group, anarchist and other according to the declination of political events).
The adopted solution is the simplest (since 11 / 09 / 2001): Let ... then cry foul (The Shock Doctrine).
Instead of cutting up the demonstrations by separating the demonstrators from the thugs, the authorities leave the violent individuals in the procession ... it is not uncommon for the chosen route to pass near a construction site, where the thugs will have free time to recover the paraphernalia necessary for their "work", this was particularly the case during the last demonstrations against the labor law.
But we simply add the phenomena of social imitation, and very quickly the CGT protesters take in the police force, a camera and hop the case and in the bag!
All that remains is to broadcast the images on the 20hours and the event is discredited ...
If to this are added the always look more corporatist protesters (SNCF, EDF, refinery) and their endless strikes that are qu'impacter the most vulnerable classes was soon by the phenomenon of polarization of citizens against their will line up the side of a government they hate ... this is social engineering at its best .... :x
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Re: "Notre-Dame-des-Landes", or the great ecological silence




by Ahmed » 11/07/16, 12:28

Whatever the means employed to a dispute, it will be totally ineffective if it raises no sufficient echo in the population, or the current consensus of all political organizations on the essentials (the accumulation of abstract value), makes that changes can imagine that at the margin, in terms of accommodation and in a competitive mode, that is to say according to the categories that benefit the ruling oligarchy ...
I want to say is that, from the moment it is accepted that wealth is what must prevail, then the class of the rich is certainly more credible than that intends to be critical and the latter somewhat legitimate. .. : roll:
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