The abandonment of the plow in agriculture

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Ibis.
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by Ibis. » 23/01/09, 18:14

This is true in tropical areas well supplied with rain or irrigable, in the fertile silts of river basins for example, where there was the forest. In these hot, humid conditions, weeds are pests, which suffocate crops. If the soil is not suitable for sowing, the seedlings of the crop have little chance of surviving the competition, hence the plowing, or the hand pit. No-tillage requires chemical weeding. Otherwise, the soil is overturned either by fire or by the ditch, and it is no longer really no-till.
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by I Citro » 23/01/09, 21:10

Ibis wrote:No-tillage requires chemical weeding. Otherwise, the soil is overturned either by fire or by the ditch, and it is no longer really no-till.

Requires chemical weeding ... : Shock:
The "chemistry" of fire is clearly preferable to that of Monsanto ... : Evil:
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by Did67 » 25/01/09, 11:56

Ibis wrote:This is true in tropical areas well supplied with rain or irrigable, in the fertile silts of river basins for example, where there was the forest. In these hot, humid conditions, weeds are pests, which suffocate crops. .


So here we start to jump from rooster to donkey.

If it's to find out who's right, at the cost of anything, I take out my white flag.

I therefore specify my thought:

We must compare plowing and TCS in a given crop system : therefore same exports (straw, seeds ...), under the same climate.

What I said meant the grain system in France. This was what was mentioned at the start.

To Citro: the TCS reduce a little the time to install a culture, it is clear. But it is not as clear cut: "TCS / several cultures possible, without TCS, it is not possible". No, it's a bit more complicated.

For so-called "catch crops", and particularly for green manures, the logic is quite different: minimal cost, the crop is intended to be buried, so it would be silly to plow twice ... So yes, catch crops are fine. pair with TCS for these reasons, more than for the sake of time (which also plays a role, of course).

With the "punching power" of our farmers (the best-selling tractor in France in 2008 was a 180 CV!), However, in the plow version, there is only a few hours of difference. On the other hand, the energy balance, the carbon balance are not at all the same ...

In return, yes, "dirty fields" (an obstacle oh how crippling for a farmer from the point of view of the neighbors!), Risk of mycotoxins if we stay on a monoculture or on pure cereals, of course ...

Anyway, there are good old principles of agronomy (rotation, respect for soil life, etc.), forgotten in the Monsanto era, pschit pschit, everything is magnificent! Even in so-called classic agriculture!

I do not have the figures in mind, but in the establishment where I work, we have a half-dozen years of perspective, with experiments, 3 culture systems including one in TCS, with a protocol, recording of working time, observation of the evolution of the weed flora ...
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by Ibis. » 25/01/09, 13:50

Did67 wrote:So here we start to jump from rooster to donkey.

If it's to find out who's right, at the cost of anything, I take out my white flag.


I find you very unpleasant (and superficial) unnecessarily. I answered Citro who said

citro wrote:This technique allows faster rotations (2 or even 3 annual crops on the same plot.
For example cereals then beans, the deep roots of which will "lift" the nitrogenous nutrients buried too deeply.


You will agree with me that in our climates, 2 crops are only possible under irrigation (sowing beans in July without irrigation is too random) and that three crops are market gardening, not agriculture.

As for you, you didn't argue with the answers I gave you above. Who wants to be right?

Most organic farmers understand this, and use TCS in a rational way, that is to say from time to time and depending on the crop to be planted and the conditions of the year.

They know that plowing remains the best weeding technique.

They know that certainly, the first centimeters are richer in organic matter, and more alive, but that directly below it is poorer than with plowing (simple principle of mixing)

When using roundup I said

Ibis wrote:Monsanto is delighted with no-till.

A plowing name decreases the liters of fuel per ha and increases the liters of roundup per ha.

No-tillage does not bury straws (and their diseases), fungicides have a good life with this technique.


This statement does not mean that I find it great, but it is a statistically incontestable truth, which must logically be counted as a disadvantage of no-till.
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by I Citro » 25/01/09, 23:55

Ok for the arguments made above.

Regarding Monsanto ... we must boycott their M .... ES. : Evil:

There are sustainable and economically more efficient alternatives which are also ecological ... 8)
I think of all the arsenal of the organic gardener (nettle, comfrey ...) that the public authorities want to prohibit under the pressure of lobbies of which Monsanto is a part.
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by renaud67 » 26/01/09, 11:03

It was Mr. Schauberger who had (among other things) carried out a study on plowing tools, from which it was concluded that copper-based instruments were beneficial for working the soil.
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by I Citro » 26/01/09, 13:12

: Arrow: The qualities of copper are well known and its use is EXTREMELY developed since (from memory) 8000 tonnes of copper would be poured onto crops each year in the form of "Bordeaux mixture" (copper sulphate), mainly on the vines ... :?
Today it is considered to be an important problem not taken into account (just a few measurements of soil concentrations). :frown:
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by SixK » 26/01/09, 14:22

Yes finally, it is perhaps sulphate more than copper the problem of Bordeaux mixture. :)

On the wine bottles you can read: "Contains Sulphite" :)

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by delnoram » 26/01/09, 16:51

Copper is back in the spotlight In hospitals against nosocomial diseases.
Analysis of the samples revealed the bactericidal action of copper surfaces


For sulphites, it is a preservative and therefore present in a number of things that can be eaten.

Without sulfur, no life on earth : Cheesy:

Pollution often does not depend so much on the product itself as on the excessive quantity present in a place.
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Re: The abandonment of the plow in agriculture




by AIR » 26/01/09, 18:17

SixK wrote:An interesting little article on the abandonment of the plow in agriculture:
http://www.ouest-france.fr/actu/Agricul ... 4_actu.Htm

SixK


there are forums sharper than here to talk about this event. In short, it's not new, in Beauce this phenomenon is already ten years old.
The problem is a function of the land, because some do not need that ...
But it is a good solution, because our land lacks humus ..
8)
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