Dédéleco or rather Drake Landing Solar rewarded!

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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 14:55

"At optimum temperature", only after two years of operation.
like, and how much are these real losses (calculated different?) after the two years lost ???

Unusable for a single pavilion, my personal goal.

You can drill wells 10m without problem at home (even Uretek and Geosec or a geological soil study), not one km away.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 15:03

Again, you've got it all wrong! And your "personal" case hardly interests us ...

It is not necessary to calculate them precisely for these depths, since we already know what temperature we will find there (except wanting to nitpick), for the good and simple reason that all materials have a sufficient insulation coefficient, it is enough to put sufficient thickness in it (even rock or concrete ... take my first son, I give a table there ...), so as soon as its thickness reaches the required threshold (taking into account its nature ...), the objective is reached! And in depth, "Of thickness", that's not what's missing there is only that! So once the optimal temperature "charge of the battery" reached, we do not care, it will not go much further or dissipate very badly ...

On the other hand, your temperature at -10m will not rise above 5 ° C if the surface temperature is at 0 ° C (we actually gain 1 ° C every 30m from the stable temperature threshold reached - which is at minus 30m! And goes up to 12,5 ° C - so your evaluations are a big pipe)

You had better find yourself a big boiler of> 1000 liters and perfect the insulation of your building from the inside. This is the best thing to do.

And above all as Christophe says, it all depends on the nature of your basement, you make generalities (and sometimes not ...) but it is case-by-case. No, but what are you stuck with emery sometimes, so ... : Cheesy:
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 15: 17, 1 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 15:16

Typical phrase that shows a complete misunderstanding of heat diffusion, once again.
Reread what I explained and all the wikipedia links !!

Otherwise the Swiss thing does not interest me, because I seek to improve my heating at home like 95% of the French without buying an expensive Swiss apartment, which innovates little.

I need to innovate simple at home !!
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 15:23

dedeleco wrote:Typical phrase that shows a complete misunderstanding of heat diffusion, once again.


No need to know more than the fact that you will not reach more than 12,5 ° C at -30m, which is very insufficient for a thermal balloon intended for AN OLD CONSTRUCTION ... Who will "eat you" what you will have stored in less than two and will disperse everything via thermal bridges!

You are sometimes "stuffy at home", I'm afraid ...

I tell you that so far, you are basing yourself on a vague sketch of an underground house in ... California! Where there are micro-climates favorable to 14 ° C in winter ... It has nothing to do with the French Mediterranean coast in winter, or it freezes terrible with a slight mistral and / or wet sea entrances. .. (I understand that you are cold, I know the area ... ^^)

dedeleco wrote:Reread what I explained and all the wikipedia links !!

No, you're not "god" in person, and I'm not going to take everything you tell us as the gospel word ... tkt

dedeleco wrote:sns buy an expensive Swiss apartment, which innovates little.

I need to innovate simple at home !!


... I am not a seller : Mrgreen: :D : Cheesy:
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 15: 30, 1 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 15:30

One more sentence:
No need to know more than the fact that you will not reach more than 12,5 ° C at -30m, which is very insufficient for a thermal balloon intended for AN OLD CONSTRUCTION ...

which shows a total misunderstanding of heat diffusion and just for that www.dlsc.ca totally deserves its price, which can be, will teach and assimilate, the diffusion of heat to graduates like Obamot!
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 15:31

... I stop the fees, you are too stubborn for me : Mrgreen: :D : Cheesy:
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Remundo
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by Remundo » 28/11/11, 15:35

it's interesting this underground storage system ...

I would be curious to know how the heated rock mass is isolated ... Because otherwise, a good part of the calories collected is diluted in the infinite volumes of the earth ...
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by Napo dwarf » 28/11/11, 17:00

Remundo wrote:it's interesting this underground storage system ...

I would be curious to know how the heated rock mass is isolated ... Because otherwise, a good part of the calories collected is diluted in the infinite volumes of the earth ...


it's trollesque i hope : Shock:
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 17:05

Arf ... It's not as simple as Dedelco thinks! Until now, I did not want to attack too much the Canadian project (which goes in the right direction anyway) for lack of having better to offer and not harming the renewable sector, but here I let go ... : Cheesy:

We must do an applied statistical analysis and establish a spatialization of the subsoil. Today we have these tools to do it, we might as well use them to avoid disappointments!

For purely illustrative purposes (and from memory)
At shallow depth, at least, if you want to make a sharp calculation (and these new technologies require it):
- take into account the possible slope of the land;
- take carrots to establish its compaction (see using a densitometer, if you don't have one you can tinker with a stake and measure the penetration by applying a weight, as with sandbags);
- see if there are “sheltered” surfaces and understand what is the heterogeneity and roughness of the surface (Raupach method);
- know its nature: know at what depth is "the horizon
clay ”, because rainwater easily percolates through
the sandy-silty horizon, which influences heat transfers, and consequently leads to high losses (there is hardly that at -30m where we have stable data);
- know the temperature curves, the local weather to establish its annual sunshine and therefore its energy potential in thermal solar;
- and also establish the cumulative annual water balance (including the seasonal components, the dominant hydrological processes by season);
- know the runoff (θsat and Zsable in autumn mainly, Dunne mechanism, etc.) since it will easily be understood that the natural dissipation will be accelerated by any effect of this type;
- know the retention and hydraulic conductivity curve for all the other seasons (Horton mechanism);
- evaluate the evaporation of the bare soil, the "summer transpiration", quite strong in the south;
etc ..

The problem is that there are several calculation methods! That it is necessary to take into account a curve which moves between diurnal period and night period, etc ... The job of the geological engineer is to choose the type of calculation best suited to the case ... I therefore definitely believe that 'we can't generalize anything! Say ex abrupto that a solution would concern 95% of French people, as Dédé says, is totally abusive ... We can always copy and paste a formula gleaned from wikichose, it will only give you part of the problem ...

But we understand that it seeks to promote the storage of heat in the ground, in this sense it is very commendable. Only there are limits not to be exceeded ...

Then we can model and know what the ground can retain as heat ... : Cheesy:

We cannot indeed afford an energy balance only under "potential conditions", and do that without knowing the efficiency of evaporation, "real" exfiltration of water, etc ... and say that it is the panacea, it is pipeau ...

Yes, alongside such approaches made seriously, and not with a slogan made on the back of the spoon as a dedication that touts the Canadian project, it's just good marketing ... : Mrgreen: :D : Cheesy:
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 17: 11, 1 edited once.
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elephant
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by elephant » 28/11/11, 17:07

Not trollesque at all.

It is not isolated.

We create a "heat bubble", which diffuses slowly and creates its own insulation. (the delta T with the neighboring soil being significantly lower than the delta T with the outside air, wind, radiation, convection)

It's far from perfect, but it's cheap, with free energy.
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