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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 13:02

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Why an expensive gas plant that will need to be depreciated?
for the spring the reserves will be well started and the storage temperature may not be sufficient to make ecs, being a pilot project must still have a way of bearing in case

Why do it, if it is no longer even useful to carry it out, if we can do without it ...?

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Why make an entire subdivision dependent, while autonomous 100% solutions exist?
pooling individual means it's a nice concept the equivalent of district heating


The pool of shit, above all!
Look at the PPE, the mismanagement it is! Apartment owners come to pay for heating, upkeep, administration, maintenance and various depreciation costs, as much as conventional rent! And this even when they replaced the janitors with electronic doormen! A real scandal, yes!
Watch shows like Capital on M6, which take down these kinds of scams which you can never get into unless you leave! Still have to find a galore to buy!
Long live independent and autonomous solutions, yet DEAR AT DEDELCO!

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Why primer such a project that is already a little outdated, while there is better elsewhere?
we give many nobel prizes 25 years after the end of research ^^


In my corner, they have DELETED all aid for smoky projects! And they were right ... Why? Because now "working" constructions are finally out of the crowd! (The subsidized doorbell shooters had to get dressed ...)

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Why a maintenance fee and a system that keeps captive landlords from a large, complex infrastructure ...
the life of a community is like that they are all committed all responsible


So captive, trapped, definitely ... The great deal!

As for talking about "responsibility", the best thing is not to enter it, because there is not there! It's putting your finger on the gear of "empowerment" and we always end up taking you for a dick! (In any case, knowing human nature, the risk is not negligible)

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Why then become a homeowner if we are dependent on the essential for which we had invested to achieve energy self-sufficiency, if this is not the case?
to enter a community engaged in a great adventure


... yes, or garnish the pockets of promoters and their friends, to whom they send the elevator ... ;-)) It works well in the building (I'm there ...)

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: The traditional MINERGIE houses with SIMPLE wood stove, are BETTER than the Canadian project ...
certainly today but in future projects which they may be 100% independent if we take into account the carbon footprint will have to see. In addition for the elderly or those with physical disabilities they do not have to do any handling (it is as practical as individual gas)


But this is already the case, with 60% savings on existing constructions! So the new ones are no longer in the pipeline: 100% zero emissions with the new “Minergie P” standard ....

And why on earth is gas, when Canada is so rich in WOOD and its carbon footprint is neutral? Do not understand !!! (Well yes, I understand too well ...)

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Too bad there is a remote gas central heating and it is not the "ZERO EMISSION", as here ...>


now that the first heating seasons have started (it does not work bad at all) why not add storage on the periphery of the current storage and equipped the boiler itself in solar panel or add in solar panels on the ground (on storage )


Yes why ?

As such, I had already pointed out that all the roofs were NOT COMPLETELY covered with thermal solar panels, just a simple portion is still strange isn't it? It is so incongruous that I have always been wary of this project, or NOTHING is clear, definitely!

While the JENNI project provides homes WITHOUT ANY heating bill!

So why bother ... with all this!

(I must be blonde, because it's my job and I haven't understood anything yet ...) : Mrgreen: : Cheesy:
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Napo dwarf
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by Napo dwarf » 28/11/11, 13:14

Obamot wrote:
Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: The traditional MINERGIE houses with SIMPLE wood stove, are BETTER than the Canadian project ...
certainly today but in future projects which they may be 100% independent if we take into account the carbon footprint will have to see. In addition for the elderly or those with physical disabilities they do not have to do any handling (it is as practical as individual gas)


But this is already the case, with 60% savings on existing constructions! So the new ones are no longer in the pipeline: 100% zero emissions with the new “Minergie P” standard ....

And why on earth is gas, when Canada is so rich in WOOD and its carbon footprint is neutral? Do not understand !!! (Well yes, I understand too well ...)

Napo dwarf wrote:
Obamot wrote: Too bad there is a remote gas central heating and it is not the "ZERO EMISSION", as here ...>


now that the first heating seasons have started (it does not work bad at all) why not add storage on the periphery of the current storage and equipped the boiler itself in solar panel or add in solar panels on the ground (on storage )


Yes why ?

As such, I had already noticed that all the roofs were not covered with solar thermal panels, just a simple portion is still strange isn't it? It is so iuncongru, that I have always been wary of this project, or NOTHING is clear!

While the JENNI project provides homes WITHOUT ANY heating bill!

So why bother ... with all this!

(I must be blonde, because it's my job and I haven't understood anything yet ...) : Mrgreen: : Cheesy:



for gas heating I agree the wood would have been more judicious.

if the storage is increased in its volume and the surface of the sensor panels is also increased, there they can resell their beautiful boiler and do without the maintenance that goes with it and end up with a more basic system without part to change (part burner, ...) except for pumps and motorized valve

but I remind you this is a pilot project it cannot be perfect
but the gas heating side, I agree it's not in line with the concept (unless the gas comes from an anaerobic digestion plant and there ... : Mrgreen: )
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 13:25

You don't seem to have understood www.dlsc.ca on the reasons for their careful choices, the gas is a complement to the DHW which requires 60 ° C and therefore they have separated the functions well !!
Instead of adding up the risk of problems and the then high prices !!

You are obsessed with 100%, big mistake !!
We must make the report: cheaper on efficiency, it is not 100%, but separate functions !!!

Otherwise we invest with 50 to 100 years of heating as Christophe says, not enthusiastic.

They clearly took a scientific method that you don't see !!
www.dlsc can be simplified by respecting this science.

Collectively, we find the average stupidity of individuals, and therefore it is seen in the charges of certain condominiums, with too many people who do not do well, exactly as the French believe themselves obliged to continue nuclear until a Fukushima-Tcehernobyl disaster in France and a region entirely evacuated in perpetuity, certain sooner or later.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 13:33

No, Jenni is not an idiot! (( : Cheesy: )

(Jenni project, 100% autonomous heating by thermal balloon and free thermal solar energy WITHOUT ANY NECESSARY SUPPLEMENT) ...>

(implied, he is neither obsessed with the 100% that he achieves despite all blithely, nor is he affected by the "Average stupidity of individuals")

He just made the right calculations to correctly size his thermal balloon, his installation ...and so on ...

- which ultimately make it possible to provide a “free” house if we assess the savings made - So the argument of an assumed depreciation over 50 or 100 years is completely flawed!
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 13: 42, 1 edited once.
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Napo dwarf
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by Napo dwarf » 28/11/11, 13:38

yes but the choice of gas instead of wood is still strange

I think (the project I find it very good) that there are optimizations to be made

35 m in diameter for storage there's a good way to add 150m² of panel + 18%
around 14 additional piles + XNUMX% storage volume

energy recovery for DHW with a condensate recovery tank (this must already be the case ^^)

this is a pilot project so it cannot be perfect but its design is revolutionary
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 13:48

What is not clear either is the percentage of savings made ... Which ones?

Compared to what ? Nothing is formally specified.

As we do not know what the said percentage corresponds to, we cannot deduce that it is a scale on a hundred-percent, but indeed 80% compared to something that is not mentioned clearly, but that is not the "FULL NEED". Therefore, we can only speculate on the success of its operation.

The only thing we can say is that the tubing galore is well done : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: if there is one, let's leave that for the benefit of the doubt, but everything demonstrates it, let's see ...:

1) Inappropriate drilling depth, which defies the laws of physics, since a suitable temperature can only be found using the ground as a thermal balloon, only at (-) 400m, even though the cumulative depth of the drilling in shallow depth that it was necessary to achieve, reached nearly 1000m, which would have been more than enough to obtain a constant flow at high temperature, without even requiring solar thermal collector panels! It is therefore the basic technical choice that poses a problem for me! Why not have done simply in augmented geothermal energy? Needless to say that shallow storage, where there is a maximum temperature of 12 ° C, I do not believe for a single second, it is pipe! (Jenni's tank is IN the building, at ambient temperature of at least 20 ° C, and regenerates itself at the slightest solar radiation ... all year round, without loss => we could not do better in terms of optimization .. . unless you go down deep, but it's more expensive ...)

2) Creation of any part of a system which is not econological (of course we store but we pump the energy, which de facto runs out, even though this is not the case at -400m ... )

3) Choice of the inappropriate type of energy (must stop, but with pellets we can at least do what a gas heater does ... must not be carried ...) Already they pass it off for storage in the ground, while between the lines you can see that they are using a gas-fired district heating plant ... It's a lie.

4) The size of the "gas plant" type installation, quite disproportionate and not "on an ecological scale", which can only be fragile, and therefore costly to maintain! And therefore not optimal.

5) The return is not presented clearly, we ignore the real percentage of savings achieved ...

6) It is not very clear if there is not yet a CAP somewhere, but I leave that for the benefit of the doubt ...

7) The most tangible point is to have not made the most of the available roof area, which is more when you "do not want to take risks" and for "a pilot project", while knowing that the we are in Canada, a country that is particularly cold in winter ...

8} The complexity of the concept which captivates the "owner client" is for me the "maximum danger", as for the credibility index ...

Nothing like Jenni constructions, which they are not in the planning stage:

heating-insulation / heating-solar-building-with-thermal-buffer-in-switzerland-t11285.html
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 14: 18, 2 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 14:17

This Swiss thing, at a totally unknown price, works only for a special new construction with a huge balloon in it (which we hope will never leak? See Christophe with his 70m3 buffer and very expensive Sika against leaks), unlike the Canadian thing www.dlsc.ca under parking or roads without difficulties, which can be added to old houses, more or less renovated, (impossible to rebuild them entirely), and this problem of improving the heating of old houses concerns more than 95% of French people and even more, when I see near my home 2 beautiful large houses being completed, not very well insulated, without chimneys.

Also, my problem is the same as that of more than 95% of French people, heating in winter with summer solar heat from existing houses, a form of renewable without CO2, without nuclear power, without pollution in perpetuity.

This Swiss solution is not suitable for this objective which is mine at home.
It is enough to drill the ground of fine holes !!

Obamot does not seem to have understood the diffusion of heat in certain sentences, with a single very deep hole which is an illusion as I explained, with losses to be quantified, during the ascent of the fluids with descent far from being perfectly isolated .

Finally I can dig to 10m with manual drill not to km !!
In addition I would lose all the heat to heat the intermediate terrain within one km, very difficult to insulate.
I invite Obamot to think scientifically, not on impressions and illusions.
Last edited by dedeleco the 28 / 11 / 11, 14: 35, 2 edited once.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 14:28

You are not realistic, you have already been told that drilling under the roads, will never be allowed, because yes you need building permits, and the town hall would never accept, any more than the "police of local constructions! Civil engineering standards for public works are not made for (alas, but it is so ... even if Dedelco tells us the opposite hahahahahahahaha ....)

You have also been told that you should not set the bar too high with old buildings, otherwise you will take it in the face!

Sometimes it is better to demolish, then rebuild, than to renovate ... At present, and the new constructions of prefabricated passive houses which are assembled in two or three months ... it costs less ...

( : Mrgreen: )

dedeleco wrote:This Swiss thing, at a totally unknown price,


The "Swiss thing" as you say (although it annoys you because it works ...), is called "Minergie P"...>... And with us it is highly regulated and must correspond to a cost per m3, which must be the same throughout the country. So your allegations make a big "flop"

( : Mrgreen: )

dedeleco wrote:This Swiss thing [...] only works for a special new construction


Why? YOUR CANADIAN TIP, is it for "old" construction perhaps? No!

( : Mrgreen: )

dedeleco wrote: with a huge balloon in it (who hopefully will never run away?


And you, you banana tree! If your balloon leaks, you have to go and repair underground at -35m, right? (( : Mrgreen: ) Pray rather that yours does not leak then ... Because with the thermal shocks Winter VS SUMMER, it will move below .... ( : Mrgreen: )

Finally - from a "scientific" point of view you don't even touch the pig ^^ - I was silent until then, but the difference between your opinion and mine is that I am a CEPIA, ETS graduate ... and you are not ... So your opinion counts a bit for butter in this debate. Bar point.
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 14: 41, 1 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 28/11/11, 14:40

Objective to satisfy first at home:
Also, my problem is the same as that of more than 95% of French people, heating in winter with summer solar heat from existing houses, a form of renewable without CO2, without nuclear power, without pollution in perpetuity.

that Minergie cannot satisfy except to rebuild all of France !!!

The price must be typically very high Swiss like the Swiss Franc which will remain only after the fall of the €, with the rich emigrants from France ????

Finally these diplomas forgot to teach the diffusion of heat by checking that it was assimilated !!
And so I understand certain errors.
Finally I refrain from talking about my most important diplomas. which are not necessary to justify a reality which has nothing to do with anyone's diplomas!

But clearly those who designed www.dlsc.ca had scientific degrees of real value !!
Last edited by dedeleco the 28 / 11 / 11, 14: 49, 1 edited once.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/11/11, 14:45

Or they were real estate developers, clever and very clever, since they even managed to bamboozle you!

There by attacking my place of residence, you are largely HS ... In addition, I do not feel any attachment with this country ... my mother being French and my companion no more Swiss than you ... (you lose a new once the opportunity to shut up ...) so once again, your personal attacks do not raise your level and your argument goes again "flop" ... Diploma of heating or not ...

dedeleco wrote:Obamot does not seem to have understood the diffusion of heat in certain sentences, with a single very deep hole which is an illusion as I explained, with losses to be quantified, during the ascent of the fluids with descent far from being perfectly isolated


... no, it is you who does not know and progresses only by approximation and does not want to understand or hear those who are wiser than you! (Here I think of Jenni ...)

The thermal balloon and the insulated pipe which remains permanently in the drilling pipe, are "at optimal temperature" only after two years of operation. It's not for nails ... It's CALCULATED!

Afterwards, the losses by dissipation are insignificant (see the work of the EPFZ) ...

But I'm only talking about this because you raise the problem of old houses to be rehabilitated (or not ...). And there you set the bar too high, given current knowledge ...
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 11 / 11, 14: 56, 1 edited once.
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