Melting frozen mounds in northern Russia

[Woodcutter]

But no it's not the end of the world, don't worry ...






















It's just the end of Man!
Our good old earth will do well without us and apart from the mammals (or even all the Tetrapods if we globalize more) which, it's unfortunate for them, resemble us a little too much, other living beings will continue to live, of course. a little differently ... It is even possible that the era that will succeed us will be that of insects ...

When you think about it, it's quite fascinating to watch this society boasting nifty words like in the report quoted by freddau, like "global growth" or other "healthy economy" ... when in fact she is dying and does not realize it ...

I don't care, I lived well and had fun, but I should never have had kids ...

[freddau]

It is true that it is fascinating but in fact I do not lose hope, on the one hand because the last time in a broadcast on France Inter, in fact the awareness of the planetary problem is quite rapid, beginning in 1979 .

Second, sorry I didn't think about it, the IPCC, an intergovernmental expert group on climate change says that the technologies are there to bend the curve, they say that you have to have the will.

Third, this problem will affect everyone and if it affects everyone, poor and rich, things are going to change. This is what an ecolo clings to.

[Targol]

I don't care, I lived well and had fun, but I should never have had kids ...

M ... E, you stick the balls to me, Lumberjack, I have kids too.

Like Pollux, I keep hope.

I tell myself that our way of life is necessarily doomed in the medium term (by the end of the century at the most). Besides, I wouldn't mourn the system.
On the other hand, perhaps those who have been taught to survive without microwave, car, freezer and cell phone (to name but a few) will perhaps succeed in surviving modestly, by taking back the place that man 'should never have left in its ecosystem: a predator, certainly, but not a destroyer, a virus.

It makes me think of this tirade in "The Matrix" where Mr Smith compares man to a virus, the analogy is striking.

While waiting for the sky to fall on our heads, I teach my son (and my daughter later) to respect their environment, to save water and energy, to find food among the "weeds. "...
In short, I am preparing my children for the new era which is opening up where, after being slammed, the human race will have to foot the bill ...


As for the all-powerful technology that will know how to get us out of there, I shout "FOUTAISES".
Throughout its history, each time a techno has been found to fix the problems of another techno, new problems have arisen. It is technology and technique that got us into this mess, it is not they that will get us out of it.
The arguments of benefactor technology are, in my opinion, the arguments of those who refuse to question their lifestyles. However, if there is a slim chance of getting out, it can only go through this. Aided perhaps by some technical devices, but technology must once again become the tool that it should never have ceased to be and cease to be an end in itself, a closed system that feeds itself.

[pollux]

Targol wrote:

As for the all-powerful technology that will know how to get us out of there, I shout "FOUTAISES".
Throughout its history, each time a techno has been found to fix the problems of another techno, new problems have arisen. It is technology and technique that got us into this mess, it is not they that will get us out of it.
The arguments of benefactor technology are, in my opinion, the arguments of those who refuse to question their lifestyles. However, if there is a slim chance of getting out, it can only go through this.

uuuh .... this is where I have to justify the fact that I am defending the technological path to save the planet and remedy some of the evils that we have created. I agree with you, targol, technological solutions have so far been worse than anything. but now that we know it, we can have enough hindsight to develop technologies having only a positive impact.

for example, knowing that the Earth has an unbalanced heat balance (it receives more solar energy than it returns), one can consider returning artificially a part of this energy with an appropriate technology. I'm not of course talking about trying to darken the sky with products and other aerosols, but rather to cover all the roofs with mirrors, for example.

quick little calculation (though):
according to NASA, the thermal balance of the Earth is 0.85W / m² (source: http://www.notre-planete.info/actualites/lireactus.php?id=579). the surface of the earth being 510 km², or 100 m000. the earth receives a total of 510 w too. or rather do not return them. now, the average sunshine on the ground being 100W / m², we would need 000 000 000 433 m² of mirrors to simply cancel the heat balance of the Earth and stop the warming (I know it's simplistic, I take an output of 585 and I forget that half of the earth is in the shade, that it would suppose to orient the mirrors etc ... it is just for an order of magnitude), that is to say approximately 000% of the total surface of the Earth (knowing that the global energy consumption is equivalent to 000% of the surface of the globe covered with sensors). or more simply, at a rate of 000 m² of mirror per inhabitant, approximately 1000 billion inhabitants ...
of course, that is impossible. but by distributing these mirrors over the entire surface of the globe, we can at least slow down warming. and the impact of this means is almost zero ... of course, it is expensive and it is polluting to produce mirrors. but this is an example. better adapted technology could be used in addition.

what I mean is that the technology, if we master it and that from its conception, we take care to cancel its impact on the climate or its harmful effects, can help us. this will not save us, of course, but at least it will give us hope of survival in addition to reductions in GHG emissions, degrowth and other measures, which are of course the main avenues to explore.
but these actions should not prevent us from looking for clean technologies that could allow us to fix our bullshit. just as the search for technologies should not make us say: "I don't care, I pollute because technology will save us". it is also the main pitfall that we must avoid.

sorry for this little digression away from the subject of thawing swamps, but the negation of the technological way seems a little dangerous to me, almost as much as the 100% technological way ...

to answer lumberjack: I'm 24, no kids yet, I hesitate to blame it. but i haven't lived well yet and i would like to live and others can have kids and so on ... so me, sorry, i don't care ...

-Pollux

[Targol]

uuuh .... this is where I have to justify the fact that I am defending the technological path to save the planet and remedy some of the evils that we have created. I agree with you, targol, technological solutions have so far been worse than anything. but now that we know it, we can have enough hindsight to develop technologies having only a positive impact.

I agree from start to finish with you Pollux and, if I criticize this technique so violently, it is especially in relation to this sentence:

but now that we know it, we can have enough hindsight to develop technologies having only a positive impact.

It would be true if you, me, or many others on this forum We had the ultimate decision as to whether or not to allow the development of one technology or another.
However, you and I know that what makes the difference between a project that goes into production and a project that we forget in a box, is the dough.
I am not backward-looking and primary anti-technical, I only see that the decision-makers on this matter are notorious oblivious and that, if they find a way to trap the CO2, or even as you propose, to send back the excess energy in space, it will be to be able to justify new pollution elsewhere.

[pollux]

I can only agree with you Targol, our decision-makers are unconscious. if it could be a little more notorious, it would be good.
and the real big risk is the illusory relief of our conscience which would push us to pollute more.
the question is how to change all of this, our attitudes and calm our species. I have the impression that even disaster (and yet realistic) books from well-known people and the media like that of Hubert Reeves or Nicolas Hulot are beaten in the water ...

the presidential election approaching, I believe that we will have to politicize everything a bit, just to bring the candidates on this debate. that it does not remain a marginal subject of electoral debates. we will have to launch a leaflet competition (bearing a very credible message) on the forum and that we elect the best in order to disseminate it widely. if the flyer could be virtual and "spammed" to as many people as possible, it would be better than sacrificing trees. what do you think, and what does the ouaibmasteur think? is it trying?

-Pollux

PS: I want to act a little more than clicking and moving around by bike ....

edit: sorry again for the off topic, we are far from the swamps there .... although ..

[Targol]

The presidential election approaching, I believe that we will have to politicize everything a bit, just to bring the candidates to this debate. that it does not remain a marginal subject of electoral debates.

In this regard, last night (too) late, during the program "France Europe express" with Bayrou, one of the two invited "men of the street" was part of the WWF and asked the guest what he proposed as concrete actions to fight against global warming. Well, his answers were satisfactory: he notably offered to tax + fuel to teach the French to do without ... inflated, right?

we will have to launch a leaflet competition (bearing a very credible message) on the forum and that we elect the best in order to disseminate it widely. if the flyer could be virtual and "spammed" to as many people as possible, it would be better than sacrificing trees. what do you think, and what does the ouaibmasteur think? is it trying?

-Pollux

PS: I want to act a little more than clicking and moving around by bike ....

We will have to do it. I agree. Let the first one who has a formalized idea start the topic. Personally, I have a few ideas but it still needs some formatting.

[Woodcutter]

[...] to answer lumberjack: I am 24 years old, not yet kids, I hesitate to want some. but i haven't lived well yet and i would like to live and others can have kids and so on ... so me, sorry, i don't care ...

-Pollux

The meaning of the sentence is:
"As far as what can happen to my modest person, it is not important, but I feel guilty for having participated in the coming into the world of human beings who will more than very likely suffer from my inconsistency and that of my fellows and elders."

[bioman14]

no worries for the HS, the thawing of the swamps was just the trigger for a big blow of blues generated by these daily announcements in a mass media like France Inter, and which only seem to move a few "sensitive" people.

I hadn't noticed your lumberjack sentence, but that's exactly it for me, too, the story of kids.

if I had had the certainties that I have today I probably never would have.

some questions:

-which could offer us this program with bayrou in download

-me, my greatest hope, it s rather that we are all here psychoing about not much ... after all why not. internet and these forums are not a perverse loan.
what do you think

[pollux]

-> Targol

not bad the bayrou. at least one who has courage. it feels weird.
too bad he left to take a beating.

I am preparing a leaflet, plan for an opening of hostilities for next week ...

-> Lumberjack

sorry, I misunderstood
but I maintain, I want to enjoy my life and not die of heat in just 20 years. as Desproges (who died of cancer) said, I contribute for my cancer, I am not going to leave without him!

-> bioman 14

reassure yourself and rock yourself with sweet dreams and hopes if you want, but this forum has, in my opinion, much less perverse effects than the smallest oil tanker ... I think we are in the m ... and that we will have to avoid falling asleep if we do not want to end up drowned .

-Pollux