Calculator light bulbs in the Figaro

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Calculator light bulbs in the Figaro




by Christophe » 12/01/09, 23:58

The Econologie.com site has just been quoted in a Figaro web article (I don't know if there is a paper version), here is the passage in question:

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So this concerns what comparator calculator

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Office version to download here: https://www.econologie.com/calcul-du-ret ... -3659.html

Live Flash version: https://www.econologie.com/calculateur-c ... -4019.html

For wide screens: https://www.econologie.com/shop/infos/ca ... gie-co2-11

News: https://www.econologie.com/electricite-r ... -3640.html

Saving energy requires, the good old bulb of Edison will have to give way to compact fluorescent lamps. Not sure, however, that these new models are completely green. All the light on the remaining gray areas.

It is done. In early December, the European Union finally pressed the switch. Now a threatened species, the incandescent bulb - 130 years on the clock - should completely go out by 2012. Objective: reduce our energy consumption in order to reduce CO2 emissions in the atmosphere. However, the new low-consumption lamps are not without drawbacks: polluting, almost all imported from Asia, pale for the most part, slow to light ... The least we can say is that they are not unanimous. Some answers likely to light our lanterns.

A good deal?

Not always. The # 1 selling point of compact fluorescent lamps is their low power consumption: 4 to 6 times less than their conventional counterparts for comparable lighting. Only downside: some manufacturers say they get a brightness equivalent to the classic 100 W with compact fluorescent bulbs at 18 W, while others display 20 W or 23 W. Difficult to navigate. In any case, assuming (which is likely) that the price of electricity does not fall, the investment can prove profitable from the first year in the case of intensive use.

The additional cost (5 to 15 € per bulb) is quickly erased by the energy savings to which are added the gains in replacing bulbs since some models have a longevity 15 times greater than the filament versions.

The site www.econologie.com also offers a calculator to assess the savings made, which can be close to a hundred euros over the total life of the bulb.

Only downside: longevity is not always in line with expectations and it decreases with repeated switching on and off. “Obviously, we especially hear the disappointed with compact fluorescent, admits Hervé Lefebvre, from Ademe. But in the panel of 10 households that we interview every year, we see an uninterrupted progression of this equipment. It was present in 000% of them in 51, whereas we should exceed 2000% in 70. It is good that consumers find their account there. ”

Manufacturing

Mercury in the spotlight. Okay, the low-consumption models are proving to consume less electricity. Okay, their longer lifespan avoids a significant overproduction of waste. But from there to stamp them “100% green” is to go a little quick in the work. Because compact fluorescent bulbs contain mercury. In minimal quantities, certainly (5 milligrams maximum, five times less than a watch battery and 100 times less than a seal).

But multiplied by several tens of millions of lamps, this heavy metal can prove frankly dangerous for the environment and health if it is not properly managed. For two years, recycling has existed (information: www.malampe.org or by calling 0810 001 777).

The fact remains that not all recyclable mercury is recovered and that, in addition, all consumers do not sort… Another black point: most compact fluorescent lamps are produced in China, shipping by sea is not necessarily more low carbon…

Start-up

Ignition failures. Low-energy light bulbs slow to start? Yes, to believe the number of dissatisfied fulminants in the forums devoted to lighting. It is not comfortable to wait a few tens of seconds, or even more than a minute, to reach optimal light. However, manufacturers have made some progress and today there are models that light up almost instantly. But while waiting for the packaging to mention the heating time, there is little other solution than to rely on the information of a good seller ...

Colors

The return of the neon style. Recurring also, the criticism concerning the pale color of the compact fluorescent, capable of transforming the most cozy of lounges into murky parking. The neon atmosphere, no thanks. To get out of it, you have to refer to what is called the "color temperature", measured in kelvins (K). In short, the higher the temperature (4 to 000 K), the colder the light and turns blue.

Conversely, the lower it is, the more the color is yellow and warm. For a rendering equivalent to incandescent models, choose a 2 K lamp instead. Do not be fooled by the indications of the “daylight” type, which is frankly white.

Can we use it everywhere?

No. Among the often overlooked disadvantages of compact fluorescent lamps is their sensitivity to cold (unlike LEDs). It is therefore better to avoid installing them outside or in unheated places. WWF's online shopping guide (www.guide-topten.com) also lists the minimum and optimal temperatures for a wide range of bulbs. Another factor to take into account is their frequent incompatibility with dimmers or their inability to be recessed. In all cases, it is better to inspect the advice for use which generally indicates these contraindications. Finally, due to their latency time at start-up and their sensitivity to repeated lighting, it is better to avoid equipping them with places of short passage (toilets, corridor, storage room).

Health

Should we fear bad waves? According to the Center for Independent Research and Information on Electromagnetic Radiation (Criirem), compact fluorescents emit electromagnetic waves. Admittedly, the radiation emitted was only recorded in the immediate vicinity. But as a precaution, the Criirem "does not recommend the use of these bulbs as bedside or desk lamps".

Should we install them now?

Yes, but little by little. One certainty: no need to massively renew its stock of bulbs, or to start stocking old models. Better to go little by little and support the gradual disappearance of filament bulbs. On the one hand, this makes it possible to assess the lighting quality of the selected model and possibly to correct the situation for the next purchase. On the other hand, the coming months should see a widening of the ranges offered and above all a more complete labeling of products. Among the information that should be mandatory by the end of the year: the number of on / off cycles, the color temperature and the lamp heating time.

Besides compact fluorescent bulbs, we should also think about monitoring other technologies such as LED lamps. Just as energy efficient, they are even more durable and easy to use, but their more limited lighting beam restricts them for the moment to the auxiliary lighting.

Finally, replacing your light bulbs will not drop your power consumption absolutely dramatically. Jean-Marc Jancovici, a specialist in global warming, recalls that other less publicized gestures are much more effective: "Just avoid using a dryer to suddenly remove the equivalent of all its consumption electric for lighting. "
Source on the Figaro
Last edited by Christophe the 12 / 12 / 15, 12: 24, 5 edited once.
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Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 13/01/09, 01:05

There was a report this afternoon on the 5, on low consumption bulbs.
Apparently it will become mandatory ?? Rather, the sale of incandescent bulbs will be prohibited (by 2012 if I remember correctly ?? And the frosted, from 2010 ... Besides I do not see why)

In this report (very little detailed, it is not even popularization but general public information), they also talked about LEDs, mentioning the fact that they could create 1600 different colors ... We always criticize leds their raw white light, but if we can get variants tending to yellow the problem is solved ?! (But this may not yet be the case for bright LEDs ...)
Because in this case, the LEDs would be much more promising than compact fluorescent lamps: even better performance, lifespan, instantaneous ignition, insensitive to repeated extinctions, small footprint ...
Certainly the beam is narrow but can be diffused with frosted glass (unless it is energy-consuming in operation, reason for its next ban ??)

Another question for the CFL scholars: in the report they also talked about the EM field generated by these lamps (confirmed by the econology video showing the field measurements of different devices).
Since apparently the electronics is solely responsible for this field, it would not be possible to simply shield the compartment containing the electronics with a steel sheet? :D
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by Christophe » 13/01/09, 01:19

1) Do you want to talk about this?
https://www.econologie.com/forums/interdicti ... t6676.html


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2) For the colored LEDs, they were probably talking about RGB LEDs, I have some in stock ... if you want I can make you a movie?
These are 5W Luxeons, so "very" powerful but also very expensive (controllable by remote control).

3) For the magnetic field: sorry but I have not confirmed anything at all on the contrary: fluorescent tube, small ferric transformers and microwaves are much more "harmful" than fluorescent bulbs whose "harmful" field is not so much more stronger than that of an electric cable: 5 cm max!

The "ecologists" who launched this rumor forgot to understand that the harmfulness (and therefore the standards) of an electromagnetic wave was strongly linked to its FREQUENCY (more precisely at its wavelength but let's move on) ... Now a fluorescent bulb has a frequency of 50Hz (100Hz?) so much lower than the 2.5 GHz of GSM ... We cannot therefore reason in comparative V / m term between these 2 types of sources! Now this is what has been done, and even more serious: what has been RELAYED is pure and simple intoxication!

In short I worry especially for small ferric transformers (more and more rare but still) because generally they are hidden under the desk or the bed ... ie very close to us for many hours!

Mercury pollution and more difficult recycling are much more serious arguments that go against the compact fluorescents (all the more reason not to choose fluo 1st price) ...
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by Olivier22 » 13/01/09, 01:35

Yes that's exactly it, I had not seen the other subject, thank you.
Your video shows that the field is weak compared to that of a telephone in communication or of a poorly insulated microwave oven, but all the same not nonexistent ... Besides, the Agence Française de Jsaipuquoi advises against not use compact fluorescent lamps as bedside or desk lamps (well, what the policies on technology and medical say ... in short)

Regarding frequencies, well we still do not know what real effect can have an EM wave on our body, whatever its frequency ... For very high frequencies, where certain molecules of the body are excited, we suspect that becomes dangerous (microwave) but where is the threshold, do we know ?? Okay, the 50 Hz shouldn't sound like much, but that doesn't mean it has no effect.
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by Christophe » 13/01/09, 01:41

1) I did not say that it was 100% innocent but I said that there was MUCH WORSE and that we never talked about it.

2) But what intrigues me the most is that it has been more than 80 years that fluorescent tubes (not compact therefore) are sold and used massively and that nobody has ever worried (unlike the GSM which posed questions from their release on the market) until the day when ... we started talking about banning conventional bulbs ...

Sorry but the fish is a little too big !!

You see what I mean? I fear it is just lobbyism ...

ps: it was AFSNET by chance?
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by Olivier22 » 13/01/09, 03:09

I don't remember which organization it was, I don't think they even mentioned. ("We" advise against ... "It is recommended" to ...)

Perhaps you are right, it may be lobbying, but I also think that for a few years there has been a wave of concern (awareness?) Of the dangerousness of everyday technology , which there was not a few decades ago (before I was born : Mrgreen: )
For example interior cleaning products, the harmful effects of which have only recently been worrying; industrial pollution ditto (a teacher told me about a chemical factory that exploded near his home in 197x: a line in the local press and no evacuation of people - it was before seveso standards. What would it be today? JT from 20 p.m., Minister of Health on site etc etc ...
And all the concern generated by eco-commercial fashion (protecting the environment, protecting health, man destroys nature -> industry amalgam = danger, result: mistrust of technology, not only for nature but also for the people)
In short, I think that the concern linked to the EM fields of fluorescent lamps is only a drop among a whole current wave of people's attention to the invisible effects of the products they buy.
This totally controlled by the media, of course. If we talked less about fluorescent lamps and more carcinogenic palm oil, people would completely forget about the EM fields of fluorescent lamps and would no longer buy aperitif cookies. This is where the lobby comes in perhaps, but I rather believe in the "lobby" of the media, which sell what they deem the most interesting (CFLs are in the wind and there is debate; whereas aperitif cookies ...)
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by I Citro » 13/01/09, 15:22

Christophe wrote: The "ecologists" who launched this rumor forgot to understand that the harmfulness (and therefore the standards) of an electromagnetic wave was strongly linked to its FREQUENCY (more precisely at its wavelength but let's move on) ... Now a fluorescent bulb has a frequency of 50Hz (100Hz?) so much lower than the 2.5 GHz of GSM ... We cannot therefore reason in comparative V / m term between these 2 types of sources! Now this is what has been done, and even more serious: what has been RELAYED is pure and simple intoxication!

I heard that the shape of the signal would also be very important and that the square signals would be much more harmful than sinusoids because much more aggressive for the possible receptors that would be our cells ... :?:
Christophe wrote:In short I worry especially for small ferric transformers (more and more rare but still) because generally they are hidden under the desk or the bed ... ie very close to us for many hours!
There are still too many of these small transformers and none have displays on their performance, and their empty consumption ... : Evil:
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by Christophe » 15/01/09, 20:08

1) Ah I was not aware of the impact of the signal shape ... a GSM signal is not a sine? I know it's sequential but square?

2) All of them? Oh no!! Not the one we just returned to the store: https://www.econologie.com/shop/bloc-ada ... p-233.html

- Efficiency:> 80%
- "Standby" consumption <8% or 0.8W


8)

3) With the webmaster of http://www.volta-electricite.info/ we are preparing a 100% web FLASH version of the bulb comparator calculator. I think it will be available before the weekend! It will make the calculation accessible to everyone (and not just those who have Excel or Openoffice). He did a great job !!
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by I Citro » 15/01/09, 21:31

Christophe wrote:... all of them? Oh no!! Not the one we just returned to the store: https://www.econologie.com/shop/bloc-ada ... p-233.html

- Efficiency:> 80%
- "Standby" consumption <8% or 0.8W

Interesting. :D
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by Capt_Maloche » 15/01/09, 23:23

Econologie, the site that goes up, that goes up :D
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