alternating traffic: against pollution or pump money?

[Leo Maximus]

... The Japanese still accepted nuclear energy ...

Where is the report ?

[Leo Maximus]

... I think we should repeat the experience a little longer (preventively before pollution peaks), by encouraging people to carpool which, in addition to the savings, gets people out of their bubble ...
By creating lanes reserved for "loaded" cars, and free or partially free transport, we would put the carrot before the stick.

It was an opportunity for the government to authorize low-emission vehicles and to ban others, but it completely missed the opportunity.

Last Monday the one who had a low emission Euro V or VI vehicle, but an even plate number could not drive! But whoever had a vehicle without any anti-pollution device but an odd number plate could drive! Really anything ...

[Did67]

To qualify a little bit: electric, hybrid and LPG were allowed.

To be applicable, regulations must be sufficiently simple and controllable: do you know how to recognize a Euro IV vehicle at a glance? Do you have a mention on an official piece? You see the tails because everyone argues with the Police, the latter pulls out a list of vehicles: "ah, it's euro IV from serial number XXXX!"

I come back to the start and that joins my remark on Japan / Tokyo.

We will not change because we consider from the start that it is the fault of the other (Germany, for example) or that the other has a more favorable situation (the odd Euro 1 or 2 has the right to circulate but not the Euro 4 even; which is true - except that changing it is necessarily over 10 years, and in 10 years, the euro 1 or 2 will be negligible; so you also need a little common sense collective, start with "something imperfect but better than nothing" then evolve, improve, perfect, instead of relying on your very personal situation ...) ....

In this sense, we are no longer truly a "civilization" but a collection of individualism. I remind you of the "priority" victims: the old, the children, the sick ... They are "weak", so we can trample him.

So yes, it will be difficult to change something in France. Even if Tokyo shows that it is possible to do much better, despite all that can be said. Builders' lobby, unpopularity of who would take these measures ...

It is only a point of view.

[dede2002]

Hello,

I would also qualify with regard to "clean cars".

If we refer to the table on page 3, we see that before the appearance of euro 4 vehicles (2005-2006) there was less pollution ...

The problem is not the quality, but the quantity of the vehicles!

[Leo Maximus]

... can you recognize a Euro IV vehicle at a glance? Do you have a mention on an official document? ...

Bah ... yes, there was the green sticker. So it's perfectly doable. We could perfectly sort out the highly polluting cars and those that are less polluting, it was already progress.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastille_verte

[Ahmed]

The problem is not the quality, but the quantity of the vehicles!

Well seen, Old man ! "Pollute less to pollute longer", does that remind anyone?

Leo Maximus, you wonder:

Ahmed wrote:
... The Japanese still accepted nuclear energy ...

Where is the report ?

Fukushima, never heard of it?
Frankly, building nuclear power plants in a volcanic archipelago subjected to earthquakes and tsunamis ... Magnificent example of maximizing the waste specific to the commercial logic which has been able to adapt perfectly to the concern of the Japanese for this "clean" side to which you was referring.

[Did67]

Bah ... yes, there was the green sticker.

As you say: there was!

I did not receive any for my two LPG cars. It has been a long time since the administration no longer manages them (moreover, even more directly, registration requests, privatized) ...

Now I concede to you, that in a real 10-year plan, as I mentioned, we could easily set a threshold - drastically low - for cars which are granted the exemption from alternating traffic, marked by a green sticker.

If it is not drastic, everyone will have it and we fall back to the box: "it does not change anything". Which comes down to the current situation: we see the thresholds, we recommend, but except this Monday, nothing happens ... nothing!

As I admit, an unfair measure is less well respected.

Now let's go to the end: in Diesel, it is the Euro V standard that converts Petrol and Diesel, even if Euro IV has made a leap ... And they do not reach petrol (except direct injection). And even less LPG ...

[jlt22]

In all this history of pollution, we mainly question diesel, but what about other responsible, especially concerning the finest particles which are the most dangerous.

Interesting articles:

http://www.citepa.org/fr/pollution-et-climat/polluants/poussieres-en-suspension

http://www.autonews.fr/dossiers/technologie/154101-essence-injection-directe-diesel-particules-fines/

http://www.iewonline.be/spip.php?article4624

[chatelot16]

I am wary of the systematic allocation of fine particles to diesel

petrol engines do it too, and worse direct injection petrol engines do much more than old petrol engines

and tire and road wear? isn't it also fine particles? whether the car is electric or diesel!

and the heaters? fuel oil or wood ... finally heating oil is rather large particles not too dangerous

bravo for the free public transport: it's a good way to encourage people to discover the possibility of public transport because it's free!

[Did67]

Certainly.

The classification is done by size and not by composition.

So we find in PM10, the "dust" raised by the harrowing of fields (it is clays or silt), dust resulting from sawing wood (it is ... wood), in summer the dust from combine harvesters (fine particles of straw) and particles from the incomplete combustion of oil - finally diesel, part of the pre-oil - in Diesels.

This last category is recognized as carcinogenic by the WHO. Not the others.

A Swiss study has also shown that the particles from pellet boilers (but not those from wood) were less toxic than those from diesels, because it is essentially ... ash, mineral.

In addition, one thing are the annual and national "averages": so many and so many tons sent in the air per year ... And we make a histogram or a "pie chart".

Another thing is the precise situation on this day: there, on the days we are talking about, I do not think that the dust raised by the farmers weighed heavily at the edge of the periphery ???? [it was still too wet to work the soil; whoever risked it did not raise PM] [these last two or three days is something else; seedling preparation and planting is underway; let's be specific]

And supposing that there were plowing or rather harrowing / preparation of seed lists and that it was one of the main causes, we would have had the highest peaks in Beauce or Burgundy ...

Even if, on a national annual average, indeed, agriculture has enormous emissions ... like heating.

For petrol: be careful - what is written concerns only a few direct injection engines (but it is true that some high performance petrol engines are based on the same principle as diesel - direct injection - and have the same effect - the particles). So we should say, when we talk about petrol, petrol engines with intake, cleaner for PM.

Concretely, there remains today, an enormous difference between an "average" diesel even Tdi or Hdi mainly still of type Euro III or Euro IV and a gasoline engine (with admission) of the same generation.

[I only know of a few modern petrol engines like the TwinAir of the Fiat 500 or the VW FSI which are direct injection; I am not a car geek, there are surely others; but this remains marginal for the moment]

On the other hand, indeed, the alert is valid, because the search for performance and lower consumption goes in this direction: high compression, therefore need for injection ...!

And gasoline is not "miraculously" without particles: it is just "much less worse". The future new standards - Euro V and Euro VI - also align diesel and gasoline with direct injection. So in the future it will be a draw, ball in the middle!

In the diesel / gasoline debate, we are talking about the existing average car fleet and there, the "average" of the diesels in circulation is clearly more emitting than the "average of gasoline" in circulation.

But to my knowledge, Monday, petrol cars (even classic) were not allowed regardless of the par either ??? Only electrics, hybrids and LPG / CNG were used.