President Sarkozy! Le Pen 2ieme turn!

[lau]

It is all very well to be for farmers but who still buys French?
All fruits and vegetables are cheaper when they come from abroad.
What do you think?
French farmers disgust other European countries because they are the ones who receive the most subsidies. Do you find that normal?

Hi EX, you are not entirely wrong except one point.
Countries like poland, bulgaria, romania..etc..qui are in the Union, cost more to the European Union and in particular the so-called rich countries (Germany and France for example) because we must draw them to the top". In exchange for the agreements made, they send us their agricultural products at ridiculous prices and without tax since there is no more border, this added with the Asian and North African products, it is the death of French agriculture, but that I think you are down there .......!
The thing that you have to understand is that the French agricultural products indexed to world prices are not remunerative, it's just if it pays the expenses of crops; then for that there are the subsidies which must make up for this lack of income.
What I do not find normal is the redistribution of these premiums to the "big", generally grain farmers who live fat and thicker than some CEOs and this by working only 2 months per year.
Rest assured, the situation is being reversed with the new reform of the CAP which provides for a reduction or even elimination of premiums by 2012. France risks becoming a vast wasteland maintained by the taxpayer via private companies operating at 35h / week and I'm not even talking to you about job cuts like in machinery or in the food industry for example.
As of today, cereal producers are in the process of regrouping in a super-structure to predict this deadline, but this will only be possible on very large surfaces.
As for me, I reassure you, I have never touched anything and as for 1 year the lavender is fixed on the Asian courses and of the countries of the East, I do not gain anything any more and it make me something else for earn my crust.
So no, the policy for the Fat, I don't find that very normal

[Targol]

It is all very well to be for farmers but who still buys French?

Me, as soon as I can, or rather as soon as I find ... Some products cannot be found "made in France". For example, try to find apples produced in France ... it's not easy. However, it is not a question of climate as far as I know !!!

All fruits and vegetables are cheaper when they come from abroad.
What do you think?
French farmers disgust other European countries because they are the ones who receive the most subsidies. Do you find that normal?

I am for subsidies for agriculture. It's the only thing that makes us still have farmers in France. However, when there is no more oil, no one will be able to afford to bring Kiwis from New Zealand or apples from South Africa. At that time, we will be very happy that subsidies have artificially maintained a peasant activity (and land). Where I do not agree is that 80% of the subsidies go to 10% of the farmers (the largest, who make excessive productivism, pesticides and waste of water in support).

[delnoram]

Targol wrote:

Me, as soon as I can, or rather as soon as I find ... Some products cannot be found "made in France". For example, try to find apples produced in France ... it's not easy. However, it is not a question of climate as far as I know !!!

Yes it's true as soon as we can, but for my sector the apple is a bad example, it is with the pear the only thing that we easily find next to it, otherwise we are surrounded by corn, wheat and this year a little more sunflower (or am I the one focusing on it? ).

[Christophe]

So no, the policy for the Fat, I don't find that very normal

I had heard a while ago that Prince Albert of Monaco received a few million € of subsidy per year ... just because he had a lot of ha ...

[Targol]

I had heard a while ago that Prince Albert of Monaco received a few million € of subsidy per year ... just because he had a lot of ha ...

Yep, in the same style, there was a scandal a few years ago when the intendant of the royal castle of England was fired, out of revenge, he had confessed to the media that 90% of the operating budget of the domain came from European subsidies on fallow land !!!

[--Ex--]

Thank you for your response, lau.
I understand your desire that the subsidies should not be distributed only to "big farmers".
I believe that it is necessary to differentiate French subsidies from European subsidies.
What I don't know is how the European grants are managed. Is it up to the state to choose how they will be redistributed?

I do not fight the c ... of the farmers, it is true that one could have believed it considering my 1st answer
But it is true that currently, one has the impression that these subsidies are useless because French products are always more expensive than imported products.
Plus, these grants are also used to force farmers to specialize in one area if I'm not mistaken.
For example, corn, which was the + subsidized while it is the biggest consumer of water in summer.

So for you, what should be done for French agriculture to come out of it?
Redistributing the subsidies to small farmers, I don't mind, but I don't think it saves French agriculture.
It sounds horrible what I say but it reminds me a little of the small supermarkets that have been eaten by the big chains.
The strongest wins, and it is clear that we do not necessarily win at the change: rotten quality.

The problem, basically, is that people seem to care more about price than quality.

Isn't the idea that France (or Europe) sets a quality level to accept that products are imported?
Prohibition to use fertilizers for example, GMOs ...

As a result, large farmers may no longer be able to overuse their land.
For you, isn't the creation of "very large surfaces" worrying? -> water no longer enters the land, soil erosion ...

A very interesting link:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9gre ... n_des_sols
with these passages:

"Today an important factor of soil degradation is the compaction or compaction carried out by agricultural and forestry machines, whose weight is more and more important. The compaction is opposed to the circulation of water and air, the roots of plants suffer and there is a loss of yield and quality of cultivated plants, which decay. The runoff caused also promotes erosion. "


"Thus, the regrouping of the 60s led to the increase in the size of the plots and correlatively to the suppression of hedges, slopes and ditches. The meadows are in decline in favor of plowed land. Areas under spring crops , encouraged by subsidies, increase (sunflower, corn, beet) and leave the soil bare in winter. The steep terrain is gradually colonized by the vine. Finally, the destruction of weeds by herbicides leaves the soil bare between the cultivated plants. "

[Targol]

Totally agree with your previous post --Ex--.

It is true that at the present time, the subsidies are going more towards productivist agriculture (with what that entails pollution and wasted water) than towards the organic or bio controlled agriculture.

It's a bit like in all areas, the richer you are, the richer you get.

As for the price / quality match, I believe that everyone (politicians, industrialists, consumers) made the first choice.
You only have to see the household appliances to realize this. I recently refurbished a fridge that was still working (for reasons of electrical consumption) which dated from 1962. Today find a fridge that exceeds 5 years, it will be a feat !!!

Today, household appliances, hi-fi, portable tools, all these objects have become disposable. An hour of technician labor has become more expensive than buying a DVD player.

After the era of the lights "I think therefore I am", here is the era of the polluters "I throw therefore I am"

[pluesy]

Today, household appliances, hi-fi, portable tools, all these objects have become disposable. An hour of technician labor has become more expensive than buying a DVD player.

we call it economically unrepairable ...

I worked in a big box store and we had a list ... and I always screwed up throwing a device that we could repair
now that I'm on my own I don't care about working for free for this kind of device I repair if the breakdown is not too vicious and the component has to change not too expensive otherwise I keep the gear in question to repair it other with the pieces still good ...

to return to our sheep if sarko and the pen are together in the second round the question is ... who is the least rotten of the two? I hope that I will not have to make this choice to choose between the plague or the colera ... and even if usually I vote green in the 1st round I think this time I will vote socialo hoping that if some number of people do like me only one of these xenophobic zouaves will pass in the first round it will make me c ... to vote against my convictions but hey it's for a good cause ...

[Targol]

and even if I usually vote green in the 1st round I think this time I will vote socialo hoping that if a certain number of people do like me only one of these xenophobic zouaves will pass in the first round it will make me c ... to vote against my convictions but hey it's for a good cause ...

Usually, I do like you too (green or similar in the first round).
The question I ask, is I going to "vote useful" like you first?
Frankly, I don't know. When we see the "useful" choices, we have the choice between Sego (populism and demagogy on the left) and Sarko (populism and demagogy on the right).

Already, making this choice in the second round will stick my balls so, at the first, I do not know if I would get there ...

[--Ex--]

to return to our sheep if sarko and the pen are together in the second round the question is ... who is the least rotten of the two? I hope that I will not have to make this choice to choose between the plague or the colera ... and even if usually I vote green in the 1st round I think this time I will vote socialo hoping that if some number of people do like me only one of these xenophobic zouaves will pass in the first round it will make me c ... to vote against my convictions but hey it's for a good cause ...

In fact, the question must be asked: what is the most important? ecology or improving the lot of immigrants?
- If it is ecology, we would have to vote for the greens in the first round.
- If it is immigrants, we should vote for the PS in the first round. (according to you eh because personal, I'm not sure it's better to vote on the left to solve the problem of undocumented migrants -> look at Jospin's results)

Apparently, you have chosen the 2nd solution. You have taken into account the lesson of the last elections.

What is unfortunate is the blank votes which are not counted.
And yes, the white votes are distributed proportionally between the 2 winners and we only talk about people who did not vote at all.

I find it unfortunate because we would see people who feel concerned but who show their disagreement.

Look at the last election, no one is able to say the percentage of people who voted blank.
We only know the participation and the percentage of the 2 candidates.