Nature, the new Eldorado of finance

[Ahmed]

Not commented to my knowledge, this documentary deserves to be.

I do not tell you the scenario in detail, there is still time to watch it in replay.
The director's formal bias is to play on naivety and ask the question: what if assigning a market value to nature was likely to provide the means to protect it?
The whole is a montage of responses from different players in this sector as well as opponents who come to decipher the realities behind the discourse of the former.
What I regret, despite a rather clever treatment, is a certain lack of logical rigor as well as certain approximations which are, alas, the lot of this mode of expression.


Thus, when a fervent supporter of the commodification of nature challenges his detractors by accusing them of showing "ideology", it would have been desirable to underline the ideological side of the so-called economic rationality (the TINA of Mr. Thatcher).
It is quite easy to show that the economy being the cause of the alteration of nature at the expense of which it develops, it is absurd to hope for help *.
Another form of argument ** would be, assuming that the two contradictory hypotheses are undecidable (which is not true, but remains interesting on a logical level), then, the most pessimistic hypothesis must be privileged over l 'other, because there can be no question of making a mistake when faced with such an issue and its irremediable nature. The pessimist can, in all logical rigor, only be mistaken by excess of precaution, where the optimist will burn his vessels irreparably.

Both the conclusion and the title attack finance, the authors adopting the commonplace which, in the light of a truncated analysis ***, falsely distinguishes between a fundamentally "healthy" economy and "speculative" finance and therefore condemnable.
It is simply to ignore the simple fact that finance has always been present in an economy whose "reality" should not be misled: the valuation of value is indeed its ultimate goal, just as much as finance wrongly stigmatized, since its only sin is to appear unvarnished: to condemn finance is to rehabilitate the economy.


* And it is true that this constitutes the contradiction of traditional nature protection organizations: to finance their programs, they need the support of societies whose prosperity goes, from another point of view, to against their goals ...
** Developed by B. Meheust, which it is urgent to read "Nostalgia for occupation"magnificent, healthy and necessary work!
*** It would be rather curious to see justify how the "healthy" economy could become the breeding ground for finance!

[Janic]

Ahmed hello
In absolute terms, you are right about an ideal "heavenly" society. In reality, it is different and between two evils it is necessary to choose the lesser; therefore better a commodification of "nature" which preserves it, as little as this self, than its blind destruction. Ecology itself is also just a crutch that is better than being totally immobilized.

[sen-no-sen]

In reality, it is different and between two evils it is necessary to choose the lesser; therefore better a commodification of "nature" which preserves it, as little as this self, than its blind destruction. Ecology itself is also just a crutch that is better than being totally immobilized.

As soon as we consider nature as a commodity, we condemn it right away!
Preserving nature through its commodification is an oxymoron!
It is as if we said that we were defending the rights of women by prostituting them!
Besides, how do you sell a "product" like this?
Selling nature means, in one way or another, extracting work from it, through sustainable farming, green tourism or whatever.
As the economy is subject to boom and bust cycles, it is undeniable that in the "lean cow" phase, goods will be sacrificed on the altar of austerity ....

From a meta-analytical point of view now, we must understand that the economy, as a totalizing domain, is only the instrument of a force which exceeds us, and this force - in its current configuration - does not tends absolutely not towards a preservation of the biotopes, but on the contrary towards a restructuring of this one, there is therefore nothing to expect from such a measure.

It is paradoxically since we are concerned with the preservation of the environment that it continues to deteriorate, so we must reduce our field of technological influence and allow time for time for nature to recover , but this is obviously not part of our economists' plans since there is nothing to sell in such a project.

[Christophe]

and if the attribution of a market value to nature was likely to provide the means to protect it?

Very good question!! Thank you for asking!

I haven't seen the documentary ... but I'm wondering about the title "New Eldorado?" Knowing that the biggest financial fortunes of humanity have been built (and continue to be built ... even if it is a little less in proportion to less) been on the mining extraction and the massive exploitation of natural resources! Oil being number one of all time!

For the record: I learned recently that there was a war for guano !! Yes, the man in his splendor knows how to make a war ... even for shit !!

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano

[Obamot]

The translated title from German does not mean the same:

Nature, object of speculation in the future (natur spekulationobjekt mit zukunft), says like that it is already the case for a long time.

How can such a world still exist? Mebon.

It's always good to raise awareness, especially since it inevitably accelerates with the growing needs of emerging countries (ambition all relative given the frequentation of the site which has started to fall, as should be expected).

[Christophe]

This world will not have existed very long ... precisely on the scale of nature ...

For the frequentation in decline it is linked to the change of url of forums January 27: there is a re-indexing transition time but it is dragging its way back there I nevertheless did everything well as it should (301) ... and it begins to worry me ...

Obviously as I said in the subject "let's boost them forums"interest in clean energy, savings ... has declined significantly ... with the economic situation!

[Ahmed]

Sen-no-sen, I find nothing wrong with the wording of your answer which is perfect in every way.
Your last paragraph is of remarkable relevance: destructive activism generates another vaguely restorative activism, but the two participate in the same interventionist will and are therefore irreparably linked, where "let it go" would be necessary, since it is is the essence of nature not requiring any intervention ...

The economy could only develop at the expense of nature because it constituted and still constitutes a free externality; if, which I do not want because I know the dangers of this methodology, an estimate of the costs of using nature was introduced in the economic balance sheets, then the profit would have disappeared long ago.


What is new and which is partially highlighted in this documentary is that classic extractivism no longer generates sufficient profits, nor investment opportunities corresponding to the level of accumulation of Value.
Therefore, it is not surprising that this deploys this miraculous search for pigeons, because it must be said clearly: all this is only a huge scam which will collapse as soon as its fictitious character appears a little more clearly. . In the meantime, promoters and perhaps the first investors will have pulled out of the game ...
A second consequence of this phenomenon is to contribute to muddying the waters and making ever more unintelligible what separates the economy and nature. In this sense, it is a powerful tool for promoting the system as it is going badly.

@ Christophe: as soon as "the pressure of comfort", according to the beautiful expression of B. Meheust appears less threatened, so the concern for this ambiguous ecology which is distilled everywhere becomes less pressing. This, alas, leaves little doubt about the authenticity of this concern.
This last sentence is not meant to be moralizing, let there be no mistake, because everything leads to this very simplistic narcissism. How to escape from the ambient economism which distorts all analysis since it distorts the premises?

[Obamot]

[...] For the attendance in decline it is related to the change of url of forums January 27: there is a re-indexing transition time but it is dragging its way back there I nevertheless did everything well as it should (301) ... and it begins to worry me ...

Worry ??? ( ) Without wanting to offend you I will be cash:

1) I don't really need you to tell us "Why frequentation of the forum would have dropped ", you see ... I studied this long, wide, and across ... This is an ENDEMIC problem, the source of which you know very well, ballast ins and outs: we could detail here some MP, some curious behavior, maybe?

2) You also know (at least in large part) what should be done to remedy it, but since then, we have witnessed a sort of succession of missed acts or something (in any case it looks like it and whatever anyway, develop the forum is not in your priorities for several years, even if here and there you grumble a little on the attendance, make some cosmetic changes (but without cutting the cord ...) basically, as it is, it suits very well, and you would hardly want more for different reasons, some of which are probably obscure, so why bitch ... or deny it, since everyone sees it: it is ambiguous and paradoxical).

3) Well no, so don't worry, the drop has STRICTLY NOTHING to do with the change of URL (or so little that it is absolutely not significant, the simple fact that you mention this cause demonstrates how much confusion reigns in your mind, to be a gentleman and not to say more), since it may have affected twenty to forty messages, at most! In the end peanut! What about the critical mass on this: still peanut! Over 2 days, it should have been restored a long time ago ... In short, another beautiful cloud of smoke to fantasize, about the bad Gogol who screwed everything up (lol). The real people responsible for them (there are no masses, one or two, rather one?) Come out each time white / s like snow ... It's beautiful snow, but it melts quickly under the sun..!

4)

[...] Obviously as I had said in the subject "let's boost the forums"interest in clean energy, savings ... has declined significantly ... with the economic situation!

pffff, I note your point of view and I respect it. BUT: instead of looking first at the TRUE causes that LEAD to this (quite the opposite, interest is growing, in all areas, even up to financial speculation on "natural deposits", this which proves the opposite), so seeing all of this based on evidence, figures, know-how, statistics, etc ... well, well before speculating any conclusions without a full diagnosis, speculating possible effects very hypothetical co-lateral, therefore start by making a general review of the situation without qualms and in an impartial and honest way - and especially to accept to see it as it is and not as one would like it This is how it works.discomfort pressure"disappears or moves away, no more reforms, goodbye to promises, bye bye questioning, disappeared the feeling of loyalty: back to square one ... It was the blow every time (and it's a human component that has its roots in the money-debt paradigm, A. Masslow calls it "the need for restraint"To which we could add"the search for decrease or absence" of the last...).

Anyway, you're not a monster, it's human
even if ... ° _O
Anyway, it's more my job ...

[Christophe]

Message completely HS Obamot ...

You have indeed contributed to the destruction of participation it seems to me, to the disgust of the other participants, to the general destabilization ... but your ego is far too high to admit it! Unless it is something else ...

And one forum it's not just the administrator who does it !!!

Again you are trying to destabilize me!

finally it's more my job...

Your job ?? QED?

ps: what to do (when you are alone in addition) against rogue "competitors" who do negative SEO, pay trolls, spammers, get false positive opinions, the reverse for others, buy false likes on social networks ... In short, almost mafia methods!

And I'm (unfortunately?) Too honest to practice this kind of method ...

This "shitty" Internet, in place for a few years, disgusts me ... Intelligence is also knowing how to say stop ...

[highfly-addict]

Nothing to add, I share your point of view Christophe!

As for attendance ... one wonders what motivates a "simple" (?) Member of this forum to "get involved" in this way for this cause?
Pure disinterested humanism? (MDR!)