Solar: basic questions!

[Grelinette]

We hear about new solar projects at the global level but also at the local level (municipalities, neighborhood collectives, individuals, etc.).

In the solar market, it is difficult to navigate the figures announced by one and the other, both in terms of solar installation costs, depreciation periods, and even production volumes. electricity.

Simple and basic questions:

For a region whose sunshine is acceptable, say the PACA region:

1- How much does a solar PV plant of 100 m² cost, materials and labor?

2- With 100 m² of PV, how much electricity can you expect to produce in a year?

3- What value (in €) represents this quantity of electricity produced on 1 year, either in self-consumption or in resale to an electricity supplier?

(There are probably other important questions, but let's start by answering those ones)

From these values ​​for 100 m² one should be able to calculate (3 rule) the approximate values ​​for slightly different, smaller or larger installations, even if the larger the installation, the less it is proportionally expensive.

[sicetaitsimple]

[b] 1- How much does a solar PV installation of 100 m² cost, materials and labor?

I don't think there will be any "definitive" answers to your questions. "It depends", as Fernand Raynaud would have said ...
That said, it misses important input data: 100m2 on the ground or on the roof?

[sicetaitsimple]

That said, 100m2 well exposed in PACA, it must come out +/- 15kWc, for an annual production of +/- 20000 kWh.
The current purchase price for an installation of this size is about 12c € / kWh.
And therefore annual revenues (total sale) of +/- 2400 €.

PS: all that ladle, say that these are orders of magnitude.

[Grelinette]

That said, 100m2 well exposed in PACA, it must come out +/- 15kWc, for an annual production of +/- 20000 kWh.
The current purchase price for an installation of this size is about 12c € / kWh.
And therefore annual revenues (total sale) of +/- 2400 €.

PS: all that ladle, say that these are orders of magnitude.

Thank you for that answer...

And 100 m² of PV, today it costs how much to the ladle?
(in average price for new with wiring and connectors, excluding installation labor).

PS: I do not think that the installation on the "ground or on the roof" is so important: it is not a few meters of difference in altitude that will change much. But there will be an additional cost on labor.


To stay in this subject and ask other basic questions ...

Which of these choices is most interesting today:

1- Consume all the electricity produced by your own PV (do not sell anything, even if you lose a surplus of production)
2- Sell all the electricity produced (and buy the electricity from the grid)
3 - Consume some and sell the rest

[sicetaitsimple]

And 100 m² of PV, today it costs how much to the ladle?
(in average price for new with wiring and connectors, excluding installation labor).
........
Which of these choices is most interesting today:
1- Consume all the electricity produced by your own PV (do not sell anything, even if you lose a surplus of production)
2- Sell all the electricity produced (and buy the electricity from the grid)
3 - Consume some and sell the rest

I have no reliable idea on the price, we find everything (and certainly anything ...) on the Net.

Regarding 1,2,3 choices, it depends on what you produce and what you consume. But if we stay on 100m2, anyway it will certainly 2 or 3 and I'm not sure that with the corresponding purchase price it makes a big difference on arrival.

[ENERC]

A panel is about 1m x 1,7m. So for 100m2, you must be able to fit two palettes of 28 modules.
That is about 7000 € for panels, with 15 kWc in panels of 280Wc. For 2 palettes some sites make free shipping.
With this power, it is inevitably in three-phase and it is necessary to count 1500 € for the inverter.

I do not see much interest in self-consumption except to really consume a lot. The option 3 seems to me the best, but it will be necessary to pass the house in three phase. If it's too complicated, it's 2 option with direct connection to a new DPL created by Enedis.

"Yield" side: in option 2, you can aim for a contract at 12 c €, and in option 3 at 6 c €. If you consume a lot during the day, option 3 can be interesting, especially given the 5,9% + 1% increase in June and July 2019 alone.

[Did67]

An important element in such a project is who does it!

For a simple amateur like me, it "must" go through an installer. If it is connected, it must be "approved". And therefore very quickly, the note climbs. It's like at the garage, it is not the oil and the oil filter that are expensive, it is the "service". In the event of resale, there are additional costs of "files", connections with respect for standards.

The second pitfall, for an "amateur" like me, is, once you have decided, to know how to distinguish a "serious service provider" from a "margoulin" (there are many in the sector, even if this calm down a bit). Alas, the various "amenities" protect quite little. They are obtained quite easily and there is no control over the seriousness afterwards ...

Self-consumption, except in special circumstances, is not easy for a simple "amateur": we need electricity the most when there is no sun! At night and in winter! An installation is likely to be oversized 3/4 of the time, while providing little when there is a serious need (washing machine, ...). So never "profitable" (in the sense of "recovering the down payment"). Even if electricity is one of the energies whose price rises the most, and the most regularly. So there is hope (I'm talking about the price including VAT: invoice paid / number of kwh consumed - not the price displayed on the prospectuses, excluding CSPE, VAT, VAT on the CSPE, etc ...)

So on the one hand, the price of (Chinese) equipment is falling. And it should be "obvious". On the other hand, I remain undecided.

So in general, a viable project starts with a major change in the way you consume! And by a maximum of "negawatts"!

For me, the "elegant" solution would be the combination with an electric car powered from solar - and better yet, which could be used as storage and "pumped" in when the batteries are full, beyond what is expected on the day. next day ... But again, the manufacturers do not make it easy for us !!!

[ENERC]

On the "Chinese" PV part, the reality is more complex: China is the world's largest producer of panels, but also the country that installs the most at home. In fact, China exports few panels.

Sand is transformed into silicon in Norway (at the foot of dams) and in France (for example in Savoy) where electricity is cheap: it is the most energy consuming phase.
The ingots then go to Taiwan / Korea where they are cut and transformed into cells.
The cells return to Europe where they are assembled to make panels. It seems uneconomical to make thousands of miles of ingots, but it is little weight compared to the pane of protection.

[Did67]

On several occasions, on images of big projects in France, I saw, in the background of the images, pallets with Chinese marks ... Hence this qualification.

But indeed, I know that there is still a residual production of panels in Europe (among other things following European tax measures - officially, "anti-dumping" measures; since suppressed).

I am not at all against PV. And Chinese signs are not a real problem. After all, the computer on which I'm chatting, or my smartphone, are Chinese ... So ???

It's just that for an individual, not being ripped off is not easy! And the "EV + PV pack to supply it" still has a fairly heavy financial entry ticket, in the order of 30 euros! So tomorrow, maybe ... Or the day after tomorrow?

[Christophe]

Let's talk little, let's talk about it ...

In France and injection currently we are between 2 and 3 € the Wc posed and all-inclusive! More is the scam ...

170Wc / m2 ... or 17 kWc for 100 m2, price between 30 and 40 000 €.

Be careful to check the conditions of injection: I think the limit is 5kWc, beyond it is the industrial tariff ...

The return time is from 7 to 12 years to 12 cts the kwh and according to the economic and technical conditions and the size does not matter ... beware of solar masks that can stunt production and profitability. Think that the hedge or the fir of the neighbor will grow ...

If one installs and buys the gear itself one can hope to reduce by approximately 30% these costs and the duration of ROI.

I will present soon my installation of 2,8 kWc which runs since early May ... I am (pleasantly) surprised by the production in diffuse! No investment purpose: it's just to clear my bills ...

The market has recovered since the cessation of aid ...