Solar: basic questions!

[sicetaitsimple]

What debate are we talking about?

Sorry if I may have sounded aggressive, that was not the intention. It seems to me that since the beginning of this thread I have provided a fair amount of factual information to move the "debate" forward.
According to Grelinette's initial questions, this “debate” is, it seems to me, the conditions for profitability of “small” PV installations in France, say private installations, as seen by this particular “investor”.
This does not preclude thinking about the conditions of this profitability, despite everything we want or not today linked to the subsidization of these facilities by levies on the bills of those who are not investors, that they have the physical (surface) and financial means, or most often they do not have them.

[sicetaitsimple]

for example an independent one-stop shop to manage the management of the file, the verification of the installation and its connection.

To my knowledge, Enedis is a "one-stop-shop" for a certain number of formalities, of course not for the conformity of the installation itself.
I am not sure that adding an additional layer ("independent one-stop-shop") will lower overall costs.

[Did67]

I would not want to defend Enedis, but still. It's hard to have the butter and the cake.

Clearly, how to "manage" millions of individuals who inject their surplus as they see fit, when it suits them, without the system ever "jumping" !!!

Because the electricity has this particular that in the current state, it does not store (or very few - some twin dams). And our devices are increasingly sensitive to the slightest variation of frequencies and voltages (and it weighs on Enedis constraints at this level, if the network gets out of the nails, users can turn around and ask for reimbursements of devices).

I do not know what is the basis of the remuneration of Enedis (a% of the price of electricity it seems to me), so indeed, the fact that we autoconsomme must bother them (as sellers of electricity). On the other hand, that one injects should interest them: what is injected in a point A is resold in a point B (thus pays Enedis)!

For the rest, we have fairly banal behaviors in liberal economy: ask a garage to mount you a used part (it is however a right), ask to repair an appliance, etc ... C ' is the price to be paid in regulated liberal economy - consoling itself: it's worse when it is the state that manages (from the block of Ets to Korea through Venezuela, I do not have against -example.

[PS: I wonder if the systems which inject "on the socket" mentioned are legal: you imagine that you inject while at the other end, the agents of Enedis will intervene on the network and having cut upstream, but not your circuit breaker, to which they do not have access - and besides, they do not even know that you are injecting - they take a shock?]

[Did67]

But I'm afraid you're right: VE charging control systems must not like variable powers ...

If, if ... we can very well vary the power in real time without worry.
On the other hand, there is a minimum power below which the load stops completely (depends on the manufacturers, often 6A in single phase, about 1300W).
Depending on the manufacturer, the charge can start again when the available power goes back over the limit ... or not ... or only a limited number of times during the same charge.

And maybe not even support the rough waves ???

It completely depends on VE manufacturers.
Some are very tolerant, others on the contrary perform a measurement of distortions and refuse the charge well before it is a real problem for electronics ...

So for ordinary people like me, it's not easy!

But it's still nice to know that it's possible!

Thank you for contributing to my "edification" on the subject.

[Did67]

I am not sure that adding an additional layer ("independent one-stop-shop") will lower overall costs.

This in any case has a cost!

Covered either by customers (such as technical control, the various mandatory diagnostics when selling a house). It seems to me that there are specialized design offices. With the risk of "shenanigans", bribes, etc. which mean that the advice is not necessarily "objective"!

Either by subsidies (taxes or contributions type CSPE). So it's either the taxpayer or the user who pays ...

[sicetaitsimple]

I do not know what is the basis of the remuneration of Enedis (a% of the price of electricity it seems to me), so indeed, the fact that we autoconsomme must bother them (as sellers of electricity). On the other hand, that one injects should interest them: what is injected in a point A is resold in a point B (thus pays Enedis)!

........

[PS: I wonder if the systems which inject "on the socket" mentioned are legal: you imagine that you inject while at the other end, the agents of Enedis will intervene on the network and having cut upstream, but not your circuit breaker, to which they do not have access - and besides, they do not even know that you are injecting - they take a shock?]

On point 1, injection does not really interest Enedis because they do not sell electricity, they distribute it. Moreover, the "remuneration" is calculated on the basis of a tariff regulated by CRE (TURPE). If they distribute less electricity because more and more people self-consume, well the distribution tariff will increase! No panic, all this is necessarily very progressive!

On point 2, I have the same question as you, but I imagine that if it is deployed in the Netherlands or in Germany it must be "safe". In the absence of a frequency and / or voltage reference from the network, this must be covered up.

[ENERC]

For the price of 7000 € that I indicated, search alma solar bisol 280. Attention, it is with a defect of color therefore panels a little more red / violet than the others well dark blue. It only changes the aesthetics, not the performance and the lifetime.
For having bought several times at this company I can assure that it is serious.

From 1 to 3 panels, we put micro-inverters, and yes it plugs into a conventional 230V socket.
From 3 to 10 panels (3 kWc), it's still within the reach of the good handyman. But if you inject, you have to go through a pro.
Beyond 10 panels, it's installation by a pro.

To avoid scams, have your quote validated on the forum Photovoltaic and take an installer via insoco.org.

[Did67]

From 1 to 3 panels, we put micro-inverters, and yes it plugs into a conventional 230V socket.
From 3 to 10 panels (3 kWc), it's still within the reach of the good handyman. But if you inject, you have to go through a pro.
Beyond 10 panels, it's installation by a pro.

To avoid scams, have your quote validated on the forum Photovoltaic and take an installer via insoco.org.

So when you plug in your catch, you cut the meter ???

If not, how do you know what your electrons are doing ??? Too much sun and your consumption falling (the fridge that stops!) And you go into injection then? But if you cut and that production is not enough ????

You seem to know. You can explain ???

[ENERC]

So when you plug in your catch, you cut the meter ???

If not, how do you know what your electrons are doing ??? Too much sun and your consumption falling (the fridge that stops!) And you go into injection then? But if you cut and that production is not enough ????

You seem to know. You can explain ???

The inverters follow the mains voltage and must remain in a frequency and voltage range (VDE 0126 standard).
If the meter is turned off, the inverter stops immediately. The goal is to prevent overvoltages on the network and to protect Enedis personnel who can work on the lines.

If you produce more than you consume, then yes you inject and French specialty you have to sign a contract with Enedis. As much I think it's normal for big powers, as much for the power of a fridge or at worst a coffee maker, I find it exaggerated.

For small installations, we have the following solutions:
- 1 or 2 panels with a micro inverter (500 W maximum) that injects illegally. The risk is that you cut the line for breach of contract. It's unlikely and it would make noise in the media and on social networks
- put a so-called "hybrid" inverter. The inverter is placed between the Enedis meter and the electrical panel. The inverter only supplies from the solar what it can inject into the installation. If there is too much solar power, it lets the voltage of the panels rise to limit the current and therefore reduce the power. No injection in the case where for example there is 2000W of solar available, and just a 40W internet box to supply. We are losing product, but it is legal.

The 1 case is better for the environment, but to pay as much for the control of the Consuel as the price of the material, it does not encourage to take the steps (and then one does not make the Consuel to connect his fridge).

I recommend going on the 2 solution with 5 to 10 panels and a hybrid inverter. You have to take a hybrid inverter without the option of charging batteries.
There will be no injection, so Enedis will not see anything on the Linky. It is still necessary to sign an agreement of self-consumption without injection with Enedis, but one can do the installation without going through a pro and without having it checked by the Consuel.

[perseus]

Hello,

Sorry if I may have sounded aggressive, that was not the intention. It seems to me that since the beginning of this thread I have provided a fair amount of factual information to move the "debate" forward.
According to Grelinette's initial questions, this “debate” is, it seems to me, the conditions for profitability of “small” PV installations in France, say private installations, as seen by this particular “investor”.

No worries. You participate a lot in son related to energy and I have no doubt that you know this subject better and especially better than me. I read your speeches with a lot of interests.

To my knowledge, Enedis is a "one-stop-shop" for a certain number of formalities, of course not for the conformity of the installation itself.
I am not sure that adding an additional layer ("independent one-stop-shop") will lower overall costs.

I would tend to integrate compliance in this window. But actually, the question of cost arises. Well thought out by competent people, this can help reduce formalities, reduce the time spent, it makes more readable, restores confidence, moreover it attracts more people and therefore promotes economies of scale ....
For all that would be feasible without exploding the bill? I do not know. Does the client finance it or can this be the object of state support as part of a political choice? Or to paraphrase Did we charge the user or the taxpayer? More questions.
To rephrase the origin of my frustration, today, I can not get a definite opinion on the following points:
1- Is a PV installation for an individual in autocono or partial reinjection an ecologically credible choice? Both for the user and for the community (treatment of panels, waste etc etc),
2- On the low-cost plan, how long can you get back your expenses for an installation made according to the standard for a lambda person?
3- If it turns out that it really is really a positive solution that would, among other things, reduce the carbon footprint, increase energy independence, then I do not feel that the legislator gives himself the means to develop this way.

PS: questions I ask poses roughly also about mobility

To avoid scams, have your quote validated on the forum Photovoltaic and take an installer via insoco.org.

I note the info you.