Triac for water heater in isolated site

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Herve 09
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Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Herve 09 » 22/06/22, 12:35

Hello, I am in an isolated site, I have a 1250w solar system, I am installing a double exchanger tank (solar + boiler on stove).
I have a Multiplus 2 inverter from Victron, programmable to manage the relay when the batteries are full.
I haven't made the solar collector yet and I would have liked to put a backup resistor. Only my component supplier only has 1400w,2000w and 3000w as wattages.
Ideally I would like to put the small resistor of 1400w and divide the power in half by a triac or equivalent with a clean signal for my network.
This is to have a backup system when my stove is not running and the solar collector is being repaired or manufactured...
Sorry if the message is long, thank you for your answers
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Christophe » 22/06/22, 14:04

Hi and welcome here!

Not too long as a first message and very technical as I like it's cool!

A triac is a transistor, it won't regulate the power (I don't think so)...unless you want to use it like point b) which I suggest.

If you want to lower the power / consumption of a resistor easily, there are 2 easy and robust ways (there are surely others but these are the 2 that come to mind when cold):

a) Either you lower the voltage (for example, supply to 150 instead of 230 = 150/230 of the nominal power)...this is easily done with an adjustable rheostat, it is very reliable and very precise (on occasion it's worth 10€) I've been using one for more than 10 years on my solar pump!

https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche?text=rehostat

Here is a reliable duplicate (if it still works : Mrgreen:) at 15€: https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/2063374188.htm

b) Either you do a sequential power supply (X minute of heating, Y minute of break...) with a timed relay to obtain the desired average power...
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by phil59 » 22/06/22, 14:46

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32757556400.html

There it is a 1000W, but from there, you find what you want...

Or 2 of 700W, then you have to find the right price

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005003126852774.htm



"Gizmos" to lower on ali, you'll find for 5€, I think.
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by sicetaitsimple » 22/06/22, 15:50

Christophe wrote:If you want to lower the power / consumption of a resistor easily, there are 2 easy and robust ways (there are surely others but these are the 2 that come to mind when cold):

a) Either you lower the voltage (for example, supply to 150 instead of 230 = 150/230 of the nominal power)...this is easily done with an adjustable rheostat, it is very reliable and very precise (on occasion it's worth 10€) I've been using one for more than 10 years on my solar pump!

b) Either you do a sequential power supply (X minute of heating, Y minute of break...) with a timed relay to obtain the desired average power...


Uh ...
a) amounts to dissipating energy in the rheostat by Joule effect. Certainly suitable for occasional use of a machine, certainly not for sustained use.

b) does not answer the question, which is to limit the peak power demand to the capacity at time t of the solar installation in an isolated site.
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Remundo » 22/06/22, 16:28

if the power that suits you well is 700 W, then you have to find an electric heater or a Joule effect mini oven that has the same power.

it exists.

Too bad to buy a new one if you only need the resistance. it can be found in the dumpster. The resistance is rarely defective on these devices.

The electrical resistors are a large, fairly rigid steel wire, calibrated on 220 V AC, but putting 220 V DC into it will give the same Joule effect.
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by phil59 » 22/06/22, 17:13

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004406856743.html



I won't put 2000W on it, but 1000, maybe... for the price....

The most, it would be to see what is reinjected on the network, and to automatically adjust the power ....
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Christophe » 22/06/22, 17:25

sicetaitsimple wrote:Uh ...
a) amounts to dissipating energy in the rheostat by Joule effect. Certainly suitable for occasional use of a machine, certainly not for sustained use.


Anything ! A rheostat is the equivalent of a low-power voltage divider bridge, it's an alternating current transformer...Hey, you have to go over the basics a bit, I thought you worked at EDF or ENEDIS or something like that ? : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

My 640W asynchronous pump at 230V AC consumes 400W when I set it to 150 Volt, measurement made at the outlet outlet (= rheostat input)...

Yes yes I know those who "know" said that it was impossible to lower the power of an asynchronous motor by lowering the voltage... except that my pump has been running like this for years at the rate of 1000h per year... .

sicetaitsimple wrote:b) does not answer the question, which is to limit the peak power demand to the capacity at time t of the solar installation in an isolated site.


If it's for the tip okay ... the message is not clear!
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Remundo » 22/06/22, 17:32

yes the dimmer is a fairly simple component.

It has the advantage of being adjustable.

but its sinusoid chopping operation introduces interference into the electrical circuit.
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by sicetaitsimple » 22/06/22, 18:56

Christophe wrote:Yes yes I know those who "know" said that it was impossible to lower the power of an asynchronous motor by lowering the voltage... except that my pump has been running like this for years at the rate of 1000h per year... .

If you say so...And it spins at its rated speed?
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Re: Triac for water heater in isolated site




by Christophe » 22/06/22, 19:32

Listen, you're pissing me simple... I don't care about knowing the real RPMs, I have the flow and the power I need, it works and that's it!

This pump "restricted" in voltage runs well and it has been running well for 10 years and I have saved thousands of kWh (240 kWh per year roughly) with this assembly with a rheostat at 50€ vs a speed regulation at 1000€ : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: ...

Afterwards, there will always be jokers like you who say "it can't work", you have to create GDP...

Hey, you said the same for my thermodynamic balloon conversion, didn't you? : Mrgreen:

sicetaitsimple wrote:The idea sounds nice, but I'm afraid the results will be disappointing at least in terms of savings.
A priori, I understood that 43°C is the maximum outside temperature. The maximum hot water setpoint temperature is more like 40°C, with a COP of ????, but certainly degraded from the optimum..
Besides, you need a pump for sure. In short, your annual kWh savings will be very low.

I absolutely do not want to relaunch a debate on "the counter running backwards", but in your case, wouldn't it be easier to equip yourself, if possible, with an additional panel of around 300W? by keeping the installation as it is?


SINGLE LOST!

For those who don't know what I'm talking about: water-pumping-filtration / transforming-a-solar-DHW-tank-into-thermodynamic-water-heater-with-a-small-swimming-pool-t17035.html
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