Store thermal energy with palm oil? Natural Phase Change Material (PCM)

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Remundo
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by Remundo » 08/04/09, 20:17

it looks interesting, and it should please Captain 'Maloche 8)
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by Christophe » 08/04/09, 20:18

Yes I think Maloche will appreciate it! Finally it is not sure: for once it is not he who makes an applied discovery !!

He risks having a fit of jealousy! : Mrgreen:
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by Rulian » 08/04/09, 20:28

It would be good to do a little calorimetry experiment to verify all of this. A thermos bottle, a well chosen heating resistance, a multimeter to measure current and voltage, and a good thermometer should help to clear up the question of the real latent heat of palm oil. Even its heat capacity in solid and liquid state.

Any takers.
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by Chartrousin » 08/04/09, 20:46

Very interesting all that! On theory and calculations, I don't think there is much to complain about. After the implementation ... it may be a bit complicated. But it's worth the cost of trying.

Christophe wrote:Question: how is it that no industrial heating or even university can think of it yet?

If you are looking for university studies on MCP, there has been a package: http://freespace.virgin.net/m.eckert/te ... evices.htm .

Industrial (it exists, but especially for specific applications):
http://www.pcm-solutions.com/thermalstorage.html
http://www.rubitherm.com/english/index.htm

Anyway, every system I've seen, big or small, "encapsulates" the MCP. I haven't dug any more, but they seem to often use paraffin (ah petroleum, when you hold us ...). But there are equivalents in vegetable wax.

I'm going to dig a little to see if I find interesting info in there.
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Re: Store thermal energy with palm oil?




by Rulian » 08/04/09, 21:08

Christophe wrote:Well I learn about the wholesale price of palm oil to put in our big heat buffer!


When you start, don't forget to call the guinness of the records, because you may end up with the biggest fryer in Belgium : Cheesy:
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by fthanron » 08/04/09, 21:08

And that kind of thing http://www.sophim.com/htmlfr/fphytowax.html
OLIVE 10L40 Melting Point 35/42 ° C?
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by chrisleblay » 08/04/09, 21:29

It seems better than water alone but It is still necessary to isolate the container that contains oil + water or other with a vacuum of air (primary) around and thus we limit the size of storage.
However, each mixture can probably store a maximum value of energy.
In any case, we are moving in the right direction.
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by Christophe » 08/04/09, 22:17

Rulian wrote:It would be good to do a little calorimetry experiment to verify all of this. A thermos bottle, a well chosen heating resistance, a multimeter to measure current and voltage, and a good thermometer should help to clear up the question of the real latent heat of palm oil. Even its heat capacity in solid and liquid state.


Ben would need a heat bomb to do well without having a 50% risk of error ... personally I don't have one ...

Chartrousin wrote:If you are looking for university studies on MCP, there has been a lot (...)


Ah but this I do not doubt: there are studies on "everything". I will look at the links thank you but when I said this, I was thinking of concrete applications for the general public at acceptable prices (which palm oil or cophra would allow unlike other "products").

ps: an important point remains to be debated, it is the behavior over time of the oil, because even if it does not boil and is not polluted, it is not sure that temperature variations of 20 or 30 cyclicals do not deteriorate its characteristics.

Rulian wrote:When you start, don't forget to call the guinness of the records, because you may end up with the biggest fryer in Belgium


Hihihiih beuuh not the other hey !! You make fries in oil at 45 ° C you? :)

Without laughing if I want to put 1/4 oil = 15 000L the bill would be salty? I am interested in finding an industry that provides me with free cophra or palm oil for free ... anyway, we are not there yet!

fthanron wrote:OLIVE 10L40 Melting Point 35/42 ° C?


Ah not bad the melting T °, ​​but economically I have some doubts ... must see the latent heat too ...

Yes chrisleblay but we are not yet in the realization, first it would be necessary to validate by the experiment ... but personal I see well "can" which would move in the buffer (according to the T ° / density) thus favoring the homogenization of T °.

When it is liquid = hot = container on the surface or close to the surface where the exchangers are generally located.

When it's solid = cold = at the bottom of the tampon
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Re: Store thermal energy with palm oil?




by Christophe » 08/04/09, 22:31



Here is an interesting page based on the fusion of paraphines:
http://www.rubitherm.com/english/pages/ ... affins.htm

For example the product at 41 ° C melting T ° corresponding to the previous example.

By cons it is chemical / petroleum (therefore probably more expensive than vegetable oil)

There must be sacred chemical tricks to have a range of product / T ° of fusion so important ... And question tariffs? KK1 know?

However, they only work on the Melting Point and not the Evaporation Point. A reason?
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by Woodcutter » 08/04/09, 23:56

Here ? Did you see that your solid oil will "sink" to the bottom of the container?
Will it affect operation?
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