Heat storage in sand

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GuyGadeboisTheBack
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View GuyGadeboisTheBack » 23/12/23, 14:20

Um yes. But to heat "a sufficient quantity of sand" intended for the restitution of deferred heat thanks to solar power, how many unused Kw/h and how many solar panels are needed? At a glance (although it is with the eyes that we see), this seems utopian to me when it comes to ordinary domestic installations.
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Ahmed
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View Ahmed » 23/12/23, 14:59

Heating a mass of sand with an electrical resistance is undoubtedly the simplest process, but producing the necessary quantity of heat via photovoltaic panels is not (in terms of efficiency): we must consider the whole of the process and not stop at the attractive aspect alone.
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ojal
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View ojal » 23/12/23, 15:09

sicetaitsimple wrote:Must try! immerse one in sand and plug it in, at least it will validate (or not) your concept. And if you can instrument with a thermometer measuring the temperature of the sand, it will be even better!

These ideas could perhaps lead to the carrying out of experiments, for the moment we are trying in this discussion to understand the advantages and disadvantages of storing heat in sand and I am still surprised that the subject has not been covered more So forum who has already covered a lot of subjects...
Moreover, it would be interesting if members of the forum Having a little perspective and experience can list the advantages and disadvantages of this method of heat/energy storage.
From my point of view and with very little perspective on energy storage, this solution seems to have the main advantage of being low-tech, financially affordable, relatively easy to master, realistic to implement, without any particular danger. .
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GuyGadeboisTheBack
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View GuyGadeboisTheBack » 23/12/23, 15:09

This type of installation is (possibly) possible with a very large (quantity to be calculated) production of solar electricity (the resistors pump!) and I wonder if in the event of a surplus, we do not have an advantage in reselling rather than to be used (poorly or moderately well) in a hypothetical “sand pile” of modest size.
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ojal
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View ojal » 23/12/23, 15:17

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:Um yes. But to heat "a sufficient quantity of sand" intended for the restitution of deferred heat thanks to solar power, how many unused Kw/h and how many solar panels are needed? At a glance (although it is with the eyes that we see), this seems utopian to me when it comes to ordinary domestic installations.

I'm going to try to do these calculations today or tomorrow, I'll see if I can come up with anything...
The idea would be to calculate what it is possible to do in domestic applications and with a volume of sand ranging from 1 to 5 m3 for example.
If members who are more comfortable with this type of calculation want to move forward on the subject, it would be with great pleasure. :)
This does not seem utopian to me at first sight. :)
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ojal
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View ojal » 23/12/23, 15:23

Ahmed wrote:Heating a mass of sand with an electrical resistance is undoubtedly the simplest process, but producing the necessary quantity of heat via photovoltaic panels is not (in terms of efficiency): we must consider the whole of the process and not stop at the attractive aspect alone.

It is indeed necessary to take into account the electrical power output from the solar panels. Which will have poor performance compared to the solar energy supplied to the panel - but this is not necessarily serious...
More efficient solar solutions for raising sand to temperatures of a few hundred degrees seem inaccessible to me for domestic applications, but certainly relevant for industrial applications.
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GuyGadeboisTheBack
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View GuyGadeboisTheBack » 23/12/23, 15:47

ojal wrote:...This does not seem utopian to me...
More efficient solar solutions for raising sand to temperatures of a few hundred degrees seem inaccessible to me for domestic applications, but certainly relevant for industrial applications.

"...this seems utopian to me when it comes to ordinary domestic installations." : roll:
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Ahmed
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View Ahmed » 23/12/23, 16:54

When a system is based on the use of PV panels, I have a little difficulty considering it as low-tech. I know that many TV ecologists (sympathetic ones, by the way) take this for granted, but it seems to me a vast imposture; that it's probably unintentional most of the time doesn't change anything.
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View sicetaitsimple » 23/12/23, 17:21

Ahmed wrote:When a system is based on the use of PV panels, I have a little difficulty considering it as low-tech.

This is correct, even if the PV generally seems to work without too many problems.
But Ojal tells us that he is going to start doing calculations, that's good. As long as we have not estimated the needs on the one hand and the production on the other, we can always talk about storage, particularly inter-seasonal. It's when you've done it that it usually starts to get complicated.
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Ahmed
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Re: Heat storage in sand




View Ahmed » 23/12/23, 18:08

I don't doubt the ability of PV to produce electricity, but I don't know anyone capable of manufacturing* photovoltaic cells in their garage, which is negligible when it comes to low-tech...

* Do not confuse it with the assembly of cells to form panels.
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