Solar house with high power thermal panels and thermal buffer heat storage

Solar thermal energy in all its forms: solar heating, hot water, choosing a solar collector, solar concentration, ovens and solar cookers, solar energy storage by heat buffer, solar pool, air conditioning and solar cold ..
Aid, counseling, fixtures and examples of achievements ...
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79362
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060

Solar house with high power thermal panels and thermal buffer heat storage




by Christophe » 01/05/08, 22:07

Here are some more precise photos of our large-area solar installation (around 65m²). Solar panels and their "repair" or rather refurbishment

The house was purchased early 2007 but without any guarantee of operation of the solar system. The license dates from 1981. So it was a house well in advance for its time (and even now) ...

Photo taken during the whole 1ere visit, December 2006: 2 glazing began to slide, before the intervention the windows were still down ...

Image

Technical construction data

- Surface 65m²
- Tilt: 40 °
- Orientation (axis of the ridge): axis 80-260 °, the normal to the panels is therefore in the axis 350-170 °.
- Latitude: 49.9 ° N

- Single glazed panels 5mm jointed
- Hebco brand sensor (maybe it's them: http://www.hebco-thermique.com/ ?) there are 2 sensors "in series" per "column" of windows. Or 18 * 2 = 36 sensors.
- Liquid: water
- drain back system
- storage: about 70 000 L thermal buffer (flooded room in the concrete cellar) see this topic: Concrete Solar Thermal Buffer Optimization
- multicellular pump (2): 660 W Guinard Kietis 4000
- regulation: simple comparator on 2 PT100 probes, the "hot" probe is simply placed 20 cm from the window under the glass.
The "cold" probe is immersed (in a thermowell) in the buffer at a depth of approximately 2m.

Some performances

I only made one step at the beginning for the moment:

- Flow (according to P and curve): 4000 L / h
- Cp: 4,18 kJ / ° CL
- T ° input: 19,6 ° C
- T ° output: 30,5 ° C
- Delta: 10,9 ° C
- Power: 50,62 kW
- Power recovered by m2: 780 W
- Power Pump: 660W
- COP: 76,7

Not bad for "crappy" panels (according to current pros) that are 20 years old, right? Obviously, these performances drop a little when the temperature rises.

Today, 1er may 2008 despite a very long winter, the buffer is at 36.2 ° C (peak at 37.5 ° C after 3 days of good weather last week).

Pictures of the intervention

a) Principle of the assembly of the panels:

- The sensors are placed directly on a bitumen coating (itself placed on Ytong slabs so isolated, a little, by the very structure of the house)
- They are divided into 2 with 2 collector at half height. I do not know why, surely the limited length of copper tubes of low or even the dilation?
- Each "element" is mounted in "flexible" with hoses and serflex as seen below. Presumed reason: the significant expansion of the elements.
- Each "column" of glazing consists of 2 uprights (well 1,5 for purists) of aluminum profile (identical to the profile used for Greenhouses or verenda).
- The windows are placed on the profile and overlap gradually to block their sliding (the bottom window pushes the glass from the top to the stop glass)
- Dimension of each pane (not overlapping): 63 * 135 cm
- The glass stops were made of gardening thread some of which were already HS (see photos).
- The whole is joined by "rubber" gaskets still in good condition after 20 years (they have retained their flexibility and have not cracked).

Our intervention was therefore to replace all the garden cables (even intact ones) with aluminum glass stops from 5 to 10 cm. (we see one on the 1ere photo between the very first window of the bottom and the 2ieme), to go up the windows which had slipped and to improve the waterproofness where it was possible.

Image
Image

Photo taken before the intervention (we can clearly see the sliding of 2 windows)
Image

b) A glazed sensor removed (a lot of dust I was cleaning it), at the top we can see the recess of the profile where the glass comes:
Image

c) Photo of the low collector, we can see the flexible assembly for the dillation (and facilitate assembly also I think) and the bituminous coating:

Image
Image

d) Bibi at work (not assured of course ... at the top of the ladder :) ) next to the double chimney (for a stove and a wood boiler).

Image

e) "Final" result after 3 working days:
Image

Here I am for your questions.

One day will still have clean the sensors (not the windows but the sensors themselves) ... but that means it will remove (at least) 2 windows for each column: so a lot of work for not much as a gain given the current performance.

Edit, addition in 2022: this solar installation is coupled with this 70 m3 thermal buffer in a flooded room in the cellar (there was a little lack of water in the photo taken in 2007...a slight lack of maintenance... )

more info: Solar-thermal / thermal-solar-buffer-optimization-and-repair-t4517.html

Image
Last edited by Christophe the 04 / 05 / 11, 19: 21, 13 edited once.
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 16178
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5263




by Remundo » 01/05/08, 23:39

Very nice job Christophe, hat down!

A good example that could inspire other courageous econologists ...
0 x
Image
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 01/05/08, 23:57

Well, basically, your 780W / m² is a much better performance
price / power than PV panels! : Cheesy:
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79362
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 02/05/08, 10:31

Details on the technique:

Image

elephant wrote:Well, basically, your 780W / m² is a much better price / power yield than PV panels!


Yes good, considering the age and the state reach almost 800W it's really nice and I was the 1er amazed.

But in fact we can not compare these 2 technologies in terms of performance. It's as if you compare the performance of a boiler to that of a generator ...

By cons what can be compared is the "financial" return and there the PV even with the scam of state aid they are less "profitable". Besides, when I talk about my house a lot of people think of PV and say: have not walked since the time. I believe that many new passers-by also think that it is PV ... since it is rare to see thermal on such a surface.

I would have to redo a measurement to see if the intervention has changed anything. In fact I would have to draw the "global" yield curve, that is to say according to the evolution of the T ° of the buffer, but for this I would need a continuous measuring device all year round.
Last edited by Christophe the 14 / 02 / 14, 18: 41, 2 edited once.
0 x
georges100
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 338
Registration: 25/05/08, 16:51
x 1




by georges100 » 12/06/08, 23:51

I imagine the face of the architect of fine arts if I asked that : Mrgreen:

I think it's still exceptional ....
your orientation should be closer to 180 than 350 : Mrgreen:

generalization would be problematic without radical change of habits ... your house is oriented especially, but the rule is to orient rather to show the pretty face to the road or to make a "pretty" set like the subdivisions in the round : Mrgreen:
It would be a good idea to review these town planning rules anyway ...

do you have any comments on the aesthetics ????
less brilliant it would fit better ....

frankly i have never seen .....
at the time of your construction, the "specialists" contented themselves with sticking a few panels on the lawn :D

disadvantage for electricity you will run out of place : Mrgreen:
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79362
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 13/06/08, 00:02

georges100 wrote:I imagine the face of the architect of fine arts if I asked that : Mrgreen:


Beautiful arts ???

georges100 wrote:I think it's still exceptional ....


exceptional yes ... but far from impossible it is basic and it costs less than a water-water cap ...

georges100 wrote:your orientation should be closer to 180 than 350 : Mrgreen:


Well no, I'm talking about the axis of the feitiere ...
Oriented to 180 you are full East or full West ...
But you're right, I'm greedy : Shock: ...it's 280 °

georges100 wrote:generalization would be problematic without radical change of habits ... your house is oriented especially, but the rule is to orient rather to show the pretty face to the road or to make a "pretty" set like the subdivisions in the round : Mrgreen:
It would be a good idea to review these town planning rules anyway ...


Well if we already generalized "small panels" that would not be bad?

georges100 wrote:do you have any comments on the aesthetics ????
less brilliant it would fit better ....


The aesthetics does not matter to me that the holding of the time: it is nice to say it is still more fragile than a conventional roof ... so to plan operations maintenance every X years ...

georges100 wrote:frankly i have never seen .....
at the time of your construction, the "specialists" contented themselves with sticking a few panels on the lawn :D


A lot of things have been done between 1975 and 1985 ... oil was more expensive than now compared to purchasing power.

georges100 wrote:disadvantage for electricity you will run out of place : Mrgreen:


There is the potato field for that! : Mrgreen: But I would frankly prefer a solar Stirling that PV ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/culture-de ... t5533.html
0 x
georges100
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 338
Registration: 25/05/08, 16:51
x 1




by georges100 » 13/06/08, 00:17

I was wrong it's not fine arts but historical monuments ... : Mrgreen:

when I say exceptional it is the size ... a "specialist" would direct you towards less surface and a CAP ... but he would be wrong : Mrgreen:

the small panels must still be casing somewhere ... the urbanism here is very simple, it is larger facade parrallel to the road regardless of the orientation ..

for aesthetics it's the brilliance that bothers me ... now by thinking 'it's the case to say it) I do not see how to replace the glass ... the matte glass is only thin , and we should see the transparency of the sybthetic materials ...

your architect he was amateur ??? he did something else ????
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79362
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 13/06/08, 00:27

Toutafé, the CAP would not work with 25 ans (and a few years without any maintenance especially).

He made other houses but no other "solar" to my knowledge ...

The "shine" only hinders planes and birds : Cheesy:
0 x
georges100
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 338
Registration: 25/05/08, 16:51
x 1




by georges100 » 13/06/08, 00:35

it happens to me to be in aircraft :D
and my village is at the foot of a high hill ... we overhang everything and I can tell you that in the middle of the red tile the big skylines that reflect the sun is hideous :D

the lack of aesthetics is a brake sun, I think it should also try to think about it ...
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79362
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 13/06/08, 09:32

Ah well that's why the Belgian F16 maneuver raz motte (we are in an area less than 300 feet!) Turn pile hair over our house ...

It must be a reference for them, shit should think to send a bill to the army : Mrgreen:
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Solar thermal: solar collectors CESI, heating, hot water, stoves and solar cookers"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Bing [Bot] and 159 guests