Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the ground

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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by sicetaitsimple » 01/11/21, 18:20

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:Well we move on, for example a gas plant.

I hallucinate from so much stupidity ... : roll:


Well hallucinating ... your problem, like that of many others, is that you have absolutely no idea of ​​the quantities (volume, mass, ..)
and properties (temperature, pressure) of industrially realistic energy storage.
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 01/11/21, 18:21

Yes, yes, we know: The Swiss are (old) idiots, Kiki has understood everything. Long live nuclear power.
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by izentrop » 01/11/21, 18:32

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:They are not saying that they will store heat for months, they are talking about the properties of basalt ... : roll:
GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:Can't you read, asshole? (This guy is unbelievable ... he picks up NOTHING!)
Even after six months of unused and stored reserves, almost 90% of the accumulated energy is still available!
Temperature as high as 700 °, even with excellent insulation, which does not seem to be, can not last so long because of the temperature difference with air and soil, unless implanted in an erupting volcano : roll:
sen-no-sen wrote:If I summarize the principle of this plant, it is a gigantic Fresnel lens that increases the temperature at the focal point of a liquid (?) To make it circulate in basalt, itself inside it. 'an airtight container.
It seems to me to see a double concentration, therefore double loss in passing, with a ridiculous sunny surface compared to other concentration plants. https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/v ... ma.N818730

The impressive structure must have a much higher material cost than mirrors on heliosat. An eye-catcher that will not deceive engineers.
Last edited by izentrop the 01 / 11 / 21, 18: 48, 1 edited once.
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 01/11/21, 18:44

The two specialists in nothing spoke: It is smoking.
When you're stupid, it's for life and for some it just keeps getting worse. : roll:
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by Obamot » 01/11/21, 19:39

sen-no-sen wrote:I frankly have a very big doubt on the subject.
Thank you for your frank and cordial answer (like what we can do both!

I didn't say that I didn't doubt : Lol:
Between doubting and systematically slashing discussions (like some "funny") on projects that are not of the order of "free energy" there is a margin.

At first they talk about geothermal energy at one point, would it be possible for them to drill a well up to basaltic rocks, then they send a flow of hot air at high temperature to “charge the pile” in summer? , to then maintain the storage at each significant solar presence? It could be a solution. In this case there would not be one storage spot but two.

I say that I say nothing, I try to see how to develop the thing without being a neinsager at each semicolon : Mrgreen: without ceasing to be critical, but without "setting the fire" in the house ...
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by Remundo » 01/11/21, 20:19

Hello everyone

here is a very nice subject ...

Your Rémundo had calculated everything in 2008 with its PHRSD (hyperthermic trap of direct solar radiation). And he advocated using quartz silica.

Image

Words fly away, writings remain :
"hyperthermic solar traps have the advantage of allowing
large-scale thermal storage, efficient and inexpensive since it will suffice to heat to about
1000 ° C, using a heat transfer fluid and heat exchange tubes, a mass
large amount of materials with good thermal capacity: rock, earth, sand, metals, water, fluid
specific… These materials must be placed in containers using the principles of
manufacture of the insulating shell. The containers may possibly be buried

Source: PHRSD FAQ of 09/11/2008

So what? Basalt, why not if it works with the intended service temperatures.

Well, I'm not jealous. I like the way they capture the sun's rays with the mirrors to send a beam of vertical parallel rays on the big lens which concentrates everything. If they have the means, let them go there cheerfully.

Having said that, I have some doubts about the effectiveness in our cloudy countries: the downside to what uses direct solar radiation is it.

on the other hand, it could work wonders in the Mediterranean or in Africa.

and we fall back into the throes of the DESERTEC project, technically superb, but geopolitically complex.

In March 2008, almost 14 years ago, I had put a scientific note on the PHRSD with beautiful illustrations provided by TOTO65, a forumst econologist of the time.

As Christophe also pointed out, there was the Canadian experience of DLSC.CA, seasonal solar thermal storage that looked promising too, but at lower temperatures allowing only home heating.
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by sen-no-sen » 01/11/21, 20:49

sicetaitsimple wrote:Yes, and it would be all the more ridiculous if a storage is made for cycling, otherwise it is useless! Whatever the process of the thermodynamic solar power plant, adding storage is only beneficial to charge it during the day and unload it the following night.
What would be the point of loading a storage in September for example to use the heat in January or February? To nothing.


In the event that this would work, it would have the enormous advantage of restoring part of the energy accumulated during the beautiful days to restore them during the periods with low level of sunshine.
The idea of ​​underground thermal storage is very interesting, the question was discussed on the forum(but with much lower caloric levels) with calorstats planted under a solar collector coupled to a vortex tower.
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by Obamot » 02/11/21, 03:09

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:Well we move on, for example a gas plant.

I hallucinate from so much stupidity ... : roll:

I don't know about you, but here, such a post touches the bottom of the shallows : Shock:
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 02/11/21, 04:27

Coming from a guy who dirty his food with sodium nitrate, you shouldn't be surprised at anything. : Mrgreen:
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Re: Areos-Energie AG VPA-2: solar energy storage by concentration in the soil




by sicetaitsimple » 02/11/21, 13:28

Obamot wrote:
GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:Well we move on, for example a gas plant.

I hallucinate from so much stupidity ... : roll:

I don't know about you, but here, such a post touches the bottom of the shallows : Shock:


I do not know if you are aware of this, but most CSP plants are equipped with a boiler, generally gas, to facilitate start-ups and, depending on their sizing, to be able to keep them at the technical minimum so as to spend the night without them. stop completely.
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