Vortex wind turbine towers: synthesis

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Alain Coustou
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by Alain Coustou » 06/07/07, 20:26

elephant wrote:And apart from the risk (as for any large building) to see a plane crashing on it, what are the risks for air navigation? Do not we risk seeing a micro climate appear? Or disturbances at medium altitude?

For the Nazare-Sumatel towers or for the Michaud project, the risk is certain, in my opinion. I have been very clear about this.

It is not the same for the wind turbines, from which the tornado cannot escape. On the other hand, there may be a phenomenon of condensation above the tower (we can recover fresh water on the sides of the upper fairing), but a few more clouds can only be welcome in these times of global warming.

As for air traffic, it is always prohibited above power plants (thermal and nuclear). As we are proposing to build the towers near these power plants, or even in place of their cooling towers, that will not change much. And at high or medium altitude, the warm air plume will be completely diluted and will have lost all its velocity. No risk therefore.

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 06/07/07, 22:32

elephant wrote:And apart from the risk (as for any large building) to see a plane crashing on it, what are the risks for air navigation? Do not we risk seeing a micro climate appear? Or disturbances at medium altitude?


I don't think we asked ourselves the question for nuclear power plants ... yet the dimensions are the same ... worse ... a cooling tower disturbs the local climate and visibility much more (for pilots) than a wind turbine tower ...
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by Alain Coustou » 07/07/07, 10:41

Christophe wrote:I don't think we asked ourselves the question for nuclear power plants ... yet the dimensions are the same ... worse ... a cooling tower disturbs the local climate and visibility much more (for pilots) than a wind turbine tower ...


In addition, the wind turbine towers patent provides for the possibility of limiting the phenomenon of condensation by the provision of black rigid or semi-rigid floating covers above the calorie storage tanks. This would further reduce water withdrawals if necessary.

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by bolt » 08/07/07, 23:48

Alain Coustou wrote:In addition, the patent for wind turbine towers provides the possibility to limit the phenomenon of condensation by the provision of black rigid or semi-rigid floating covers above the calorie storage tanks. This would further reduce water withdrawals if necessary.


The "possibility" means that the performance of the tower is better without the covers, but that they would put them only if it is necessary to save water. :?:

technical question:
is the performance better if:

1) there are no covers so there is additional water vapor that rises in the tower, and despite the energy consumption to evaporate this water (about 540 calories / g), the steam water being lighter than dry air the end result is more energy recovered from the turbines

2) there are the covers which avoid evaporation and therefore avoid the caloric loss which depends on it, the T ° of the air rises more and the warmer air increases the chimney effect and this is how it there is the best yield

:?: :?:

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by Alain Coustou » 09/07/07, 15:17

Bolt wrote:technical question:
is the performance better if:
1) there are no covers so there is additional water vapor that rises in the tower, and despite the energy consumption to evaporate this water (about 540 calories / g), the steam water being lighter than dry air the end result is more energy recovered from the turbines
2) there are the covers which avoid evaporation and therefore avoid the caloric loss which depends on it, the T ° of the air rises more and the warmer air increases the chimney effect and this is how it there is the best yield
:?: :?:
bolt

Alary (co-owner of the patent) thinks that the performance will be better if the air is humid. Personally, I am not sure, having asked myself the same questions as you.
Only the experimental model will allow us to answer with certainty, but it will still work well in both cases.
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ptrem
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by ptrem » 08/11/07, 13:31

elephant wrote:Why not ? But I'm afraid it will be difficult. Hard, hard career in the rock :D

(and in addition you will have all the ecologists in the area who will moan and you will ruin their beautiful mountain. : Mrgreen: )

>>
Ans:
why is that:
part of the tower built, classic, and the other on the mountainside; it can go high.
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According to a senior CEA leader, the energy of the future is hydrogen produced with electricity. But the problem is still to contain it.
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by ptrem » 08/11/07, 13:46

Alain Coustou wrote:
elephant wrote:And apart from the risk (as for any large building) to see a plane crashing on it, what are the risks for air navigation? Do not we risk seeing a micro climate appear? Or disturbances at medium altitude?

For the Nazare-Sumatel towers or for the Michaud project, the risk is certain, in my opinion. I have been very clear about this.

It is not the same for the wind turbines, from which the tornado cannot escape. On the other hand, there may be a phenomenon of condensation above the tower (we can recover fresh water on the sides of the upper fairing), but a few more clouds can only be welcome in these times of global warming.

As for air traffic, it is always prohibited above power plants (thermal and nuclear). As we are proposing to build the towers near these power plants, or even in place of their cooling towers, that will not change much. And at high or medium altitude, the warm air plume will be completely diluted and will have lost all its velocity. No risk therefore.

Alain


>> rep:
I read somewhere that it would be possible to recover water from the hot cloud by condensing it, passing it through a pipe, and by gravity, spinning a turbine that would produce energy.
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we know how to produce plasma; the problem is to make the box to contain it.

the expert engineers to make this box have 100% chances of being hired to cadarache.

According to a senior CEA leader, the energy of the future is hydrogen produced with electricity. But the problem is still to contain it.
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by I Citro » 08/11/07, 13:46

Alain Coustou wrote:Alary (co-owner of the patent) thinks that the performance will be better if the air is humid. Personally, I am not sure, having asked myself the same questions as you.
Only the experimental model will allow us to answer with certainty, but it will still work well in both cases.
Alain


This is also my opinion:
1- By evaporating, the water absorbs calories and takes up more volume.
2- As you climb the tower, the temperature will drop, the water will condense, occupy less space and slow down the flow speed.
3- The water may even fall in rain ...

:| Tell me if I'm wrong, and or ... :?:
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Alain Coustou
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by Alain Coustou » 14/11/07, 01:45

I think I can avoid or limit this risk.
At the outlet of the turbine, the flaring of the top of the structure produces a certain expansion of the air. The frustoconical fairing constitutes at this level a cold surface on which part of the moisture will condense. Recoverable pure water ...
The rest will go into the atmosphere.
In any case, the project provides for a certain control of the humidity rate (storage tanks for calories covered or not).

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by Christine » 14/11/07, 09:45

Alain, can you tell us (if not confidential) if you have ever tried negotiations with companies or universities or even research labs?

And what is the behavior of institutional (grants) towards your project?
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