Photovoltaic solar: buyout after the contract?

Forum solar photovoltaic PV and solar electricity generation from direct radiation solar energy.
User avatar
I Citro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5129
Registration: 08/03/06, 13:26
Location: Bordeaux
x 11




by I Citro » 25/08/11, 00:00

chatelot16 wrote:I wait until the prices become normal so that the good solutions become profitable
Prices have already dropped by 50% on large installations ...
A pro gave me last week the price levels obtained on 150m² installations carried out 2 years apart with French or German components ...

With the 35% increase in electricity promised by EDF over the next 4 years, there is already enough to project the profitability of autonomy in electricity ...
: Idea:
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8684




by Did67 » 27/08/11, 08:54

I do not understand the reasoning consisting in not wanting to "take advantage" of subsidized tariffs (except to put oneself on the margins of society, which in itself is respectable as a choice - but then we do not chat on econology, because the least of things then, is not to have a computer or a "box"!)):

I remind you that:

a) the additional cost is paid by the users via the CSPE ...

b) ... who until then have escaped carbon taxes and, with an ostrich policy on nuclear power (accidents? waste? dismantling?), consume "80% nuclear" cheap (which EdF presents to them as "green because no CO²") without paying much attention ...

c) ... therefore I consider it "environmentally friendly" to help "tax" electricity by signing buyback contracts at a subsidized rate ...

d) ... because on the one hand this increases the market for panel producers (whose price will drop; who will invest in research because there is a market, etc.)

e) ... and on the other hand, this encourages consumers to limit their consumption of energy that has become more expensive (not to fill the state coffers, but to help ordinary people take the plunge!). ..

f) ... while hastening the convergence between the cost price of the kWh PV and the unsubsidized buyout price.

I have other things in the works, and had a "somewhat difficult cash flow" but otherwise, I would have studied the installation of a photovoltaic roof subsidized for a long time ... without any scruples.

I note that it was "hyper-profitable" 3 or 4 years ago (more than 60 cts / kWh), at a time when on this forum, the debate raged around "is it profitable or not?". It shouldn't be sad to reread that old post and all the bullshit that was written (I wrote it elsewhere, about another debate, but the lack of econology is being very poor. economist!).
0 x
Regismu
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 349
Registration: 26/03/10, 17:11
Location: 13
x 6




by Regismu » 27/08/11, 09:02

to read to open your eyes:

the profiteers of sustainable development by Yvan STEFANOVITCH to the city press


Grenelle I and II, it was to be the meeting point of consciences to save the planet ... It has above all become a super Monopoly for a dozen CAC 40 players. From EDF to Areva, via GDF- Suez, Total, Veolia, Alstom, Schneider Electric, Bouygues, Lafarge and Saint-Gobain, the major nuclear power and services groups have all converted into virtuous players in ecology to earn more money by constantly growing more the only payer: the subscriber, when it is not the taxpayer, which amounts to the same. Curiously, neither the State nor these powerful multinationals have ever undertaken to help French green SMEs financially. Thus, the nuclear lobby left the two French world leaders in solar and wind power to die. As a result, the renewable industry today employs hardly more than 26.000 people in France, ten times less than in Germany! Our wind turbines are Danish or German, our solar power plants and roofs are Chinese. And French nuclear power (87% of our electricity) still reigns supreme ... At the time of Fukushima, Yvan Stefanovitch reveals to us the abuses, faults and frauds of these profiteers of sustainable development who are also their discreet adversaries.


A small passage which will not surprise anyone but which is interesting to know: "This same Fillon government, which today denounces Chinese dumping on photovoltaic panels, participated in the financing of Tianwei Yingli Energy Resources ... According to the own statements of this group, its biggest customer in France is EDF EN, the second GDF Suez ... And the French state denounces the quality of this equipment and the invasion of France by Chinese manufacturers of PV panels. who will be able to"




you can distribute widely: sun:
0 x
Regismu
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 349
Registration: 26/03/10, 17:11
Location: 13
x 6




by Regismu » 27/08/11, 09:12

you also have that about the CSPE to see the figures that it represents .. and the share of photovoltaics:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=159789117434945&set=o.136181953103092&type=1&ref=nf
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8684




by Did67 » 27/08/11, 09:19

Can you be more explicit ???

- because large groups abuse, we must go or not go there ???

- because solar energy does not represent (in fact: "not yet") much in the CSPE, should we go or not go?

I quickly repeat the point:

- chatelot16 says he is waiting for the rates to become normal ...

- I respect, but I don't see why

- and you ??? [that was the debate I was raising]; I admit not understanding your point of view through these quotes ... If it is an umpteenth "projection" against the friends of Sarko who takes advantage of the Grenelle, sorry, I'm not interested here, it is reworked [but You can continue]
0 x
Regismu
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 349
Registration: 26/03/10, 17:11
Location: 13
x 6




by Regismu » 27/08/11, 09:25

Hello DId67

I share your point of view ..I was just clarifying the real figures on CSPE and those who really benefit from it.

Besides, I already have an installation on my roof : Cheesy:

http://www.bdpv.fr/fiche_utilisateur.php?util=regismu

and I campaign in the GPPEP because I am convinced
0 x
User avatar
bham
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1666
Registration: 20/12/04, 17:36
x 6




by bham » 27/08/11, 10:42

Hi Regis, hi Did67.

At Did67: without wanting to do politics, we inevitably end up doing it, especially on the PV file. The book cited by Regismu seems very interesting to me about the insights it can give us; the PV industry, Regismu knows full well, and I, too, for trying to work there, have been the target of numerous attacks by the current government.

Whether you are on the right or on the left or wherever you want, it is an established fact of which many unemployed installers today can testify. Now it turns out that the justification for these attacks was precisely the fact, in part, that the development of PV in France was for the benefit of Chinese equipment, subsidized by the French taxpayer. It's not wrong but then it doesn't explain what the quote from Regismu reveals.

Another interesting detail: the tax credit on PV installations went from 50% to 25% on October 1, 2010 if I remember correctly; but in comparison a tax niche which our current government did not want to touch and this, despite the request of the Directorate General of Taxes is maintained.
This tax niche decrees that 75% of the investment (capped at € 50) is immediately deductible from the wealth tax. The investment then turns into a reduction in wealth tax! Nice no!
You just have to pay the ISF! You will tell me that it is not a direct tax credit but it is still a tax advantage in addition to the tax credit, to which non-ISF taxpayers are not entitled.

And then there is a bunch of other interesting information that you end up hearing when you are in the business and which shows that the law is not exactly the same for everyone.

So much for the political side.

For the CSPE, it has been said that it is expensive for subscribers, the document produced by Regismu shows the opposite.

After that large groups abuse or not, it shows in any case that it was interesting and that it is always, it just takes more time to amortize an installation: after it is a question of point of view, the Germans continue to equip themselves at a lower purchase price than with us, with depreciation periods of up to 15 years; in France, it becomes much more cautious when it comes to amortizing an installation over more than 10 years.
And then things are more complex in France, compared to the administrative file, compared to the purchase by EDFOA of the electricity produced.

And finally I also have a PV installation that I did myself (admin folder + pose) with an electrician friend and it works pretty well.
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15732
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5055




by Remundo » 27/08/11, 10:52

Bham wrote:Now it turns out that the justification for these attacks [against the PV sector] was precisely the fact, in part, that the development of PV in France was done for the benefit of Chinese equipment, subsidized by the French taxpayer. It's not wrong, but then it doesn't explain what the quote from Regismu reveals

It was an absolute joke.

And besides, the tightening of purchase prices has only strengthened Chinese competition, which was already very aggressive.

This is how EDF EN / EDF, which have taken over around 3/4 of the projects at competitive rates, are now investing massively in Asian products. With a triple leverage (low installation cost + high purchase price + huge areas), I think that IRRs of more than 25%, even 30% are in the pipeline.

Clearly, amortization in 3 or 4 years, followed by at least 20 years of good juice. :P

For SMEs and individuals; now, they are really tempted by the sirens of the rising sun, whereas before, the purchase price kWh PV made the European purchase, even francofrançais more relevant.

Oh by the way, the "speculators", there were, indeed, starting with # 1: the great French electricians and the State who is a fairly large shareholder. The same ones who uttered their outrageous cry against villains - petty opportunists ... who hindered their own business : Idea:

@+

PS: "Fortunately" that Fukushima with its turbulent neutrons puts some ideas in place ... a little late it is true. :?
0 x
Image
Regismu
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 349
Registration: 26/03/10, 17:11
Location: 13
x 6




by Regismu » 27/08/11, 11:25

: Cheesy: I have nothing more to add : Cheesy:

except that the photovoltaic artisans do not even have the right to unemployment ... so it does not fit in the statistics of the pole job ... only the employees are entitled ..
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 27/08/11, 11:46

if I had enough money available, I would immediately put the 3000Wp authorized on the roof ... alas I do not have it, I would have to borrow it, and the operation would be profitable ... except problem

in case of a big problem that will continue to reimburse for something that no longer produces anything ... so do not forget a good insurance that will pay for the repairs in all cases, including the house fire, the tornado or the terrorist attack

I already had enough problem with banks and insurance ...

I therefore leave the photovoltaics to those who are richer than me, and for whom the sum to be committed seems less important

this is why I regret the complexity of this mode of subsidy which only makes profitable the large installation ... if we could return energy to any meter at no additional cost each would install a few panels just in function of its means and in total it would do more than the few instalation that I see around my home

there are things like wind turbines which are technically less good in small dimensions and that it is justified to make the largest possible ... conversely the photovoltaic has the same technical profitability whatever the dimension

we can try to understand the economy even if we do not have the means to participate in it: I note that each time that standard law or regulation imposes a minimum dimension to be profitable, we cannot do things at the dimension that one can without needing the banks: it is necessary to borrow to make large enough, and who earns the most? the bank ! and who pays if there is a problem? the borrower!

the new photovoltaic panel are expensive for me ... on the other hand a system of monitoring of the sun and water cooling which I manufacture myself is not expensive ... when I will have some panel it will be assembled in an optimum way not integrated into the roof
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Renewable energy: solar electricity"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 115 guests