Solar Questionnaire - I need your help!

Forum solar photovoltaic PV and solar electricity generation from direct radiation solar energy.
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Did67
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by Did67 » 24/08/13, 20:48

chatelot16 wrote:to do it on August 23, it's already too late, and to allow installation of 3KW as economically as possible, it will be a bit later than tomorrow

to make 300W with wild injection on the network, it can be done right away,


1) shit, time flies!

Of course I wanted to say "tomorrow ..."

2) Explain to me what would I have to gain with an "illegal" installation compared to a 3 kWp kit installed with buyback ???

With the illegal injection, I decrease, when my consumption is lower than my production, a small piece of my bill.

The PV producing especially on say 9 am - 16 pm in summer, I consume little. Obviously, I will "program" the maximum of devices on it. The surplus, I give it ...

I use 3 kWh / year. Am I going to save 000% of that?

At 13,5 cents per kWh (which I pay tax included), that would make 300 * 0,135 = 40 euros per year.

Explain to me why it would be more profitable than a connected kit ???

Again, some people don't want to be hooked up, I understand that and admit it.

For the reasons I have given, this subsidy system does not shock me. Beyond its "technical" imperfections, I am even clearly in favor of it (because this amounts to "bogging down" the cost of electricity, mainly nuclear, and I am for it).

It therefore seems to me "more profitable" ...

Or explain to me the opposite (profitability in the TRI sense) ...

I am also willing to hear the elements on the carbon footprint (but there again, I don't see where the "injection" option would be superior to the "legal kit" option; the results would rather be in favor of this bottom line if we opt for European or German stuff ...)
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 24/08/13, 21:47

the only advantage of injection without a special contract (the term wild injection is too provocative) is to be able to buy equipment as cheaply as possible, in the genre 150 euros for the inverter and 300 euros for the panels for 300Wp

it is small gain ... but as it is also small expenditure there is no risk

it is obvious that the system 3kWc with privileged tariff is better, but requires material installed by a pro
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by sen-no-sen » 24/08/13, 22:01

Did67 wrote:I "overplayed" my reaction a little, but with sincerity. I find it to be one of the plagues of forums French. No sooner does someone outline an option that some fall on him, on the grounds that it is open to criticism, without proposing an alternative or an improvement. So the person gives up ... I don't. In fine, I will do what I want.


We agree Did! I hope you don't hold it against me!
Nevertheless in the minds of most people - and everyone can check it - photovoltaic solar panels = ecology.

So there are a lot of people who get into buying - often at the best price - PV panels and those with the best intentions.
Unfortunately, they don't know that it would be much more "eco-friendly", for example, to change the windows!
It is therefore a fundamental point to remember!
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by chatelot16 » 24/08/13, 22:35

of course it is useless to put money in photovoltaic when you have a home that deserves simple improvements to reduce heating

but I saw people a few years ago having the money to pay for the 3KW photovoltaic, and when we have the money we can scroll through the installers to choose the right one

it is one who does not have the money that falls into the hands of a scammer who offers him the right plan, supposedly self-funded ....

I also notice that those who have money are also those who know how to find the right supplier! maybe that's also why they have more money than pigeons
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by Former Oceano » 24/08/13, 23:36

And they have damn good arguments to get their thing across.
For information, my 3KW installation produces between 1KW and 22KW per day, or 0,3 to 7,3 € per day. The average is 12,6 KW (4,2 € per day) so anyone who comes up with words like "turnkey" "self-financing" etc are scammers.

Also pay attention to "banks" specializing in renewable energies which are only GreenWashés credit organizations and have the practices. So a stupid credit application scribbled by a salesperson will commit you to a loan, while a real bank will ask you for several appointments, provide lots of docs, etc ...

I crossed the step of the PV and today it is in the hands of lawyers : Evil:
Assessment, PV for me finished, therefore heating wood, insulation insulation insulation, perhaps a CESI.
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by Philippe Schutt » 25/08/13, 09:50

Did67 wrote:Some elements of response to your suggestions:

a) CESI: I have (since 2002)

b) insulation of the house:

- good (it's monomur with "bisotherm" = blocks of pozzolan + over "red cedar" cladding); I consume around 100 kWh / m².year for heating and additional DHW at 340 m, in Alsace - we are far from the thermal wreck!

- in addition, I heat with pellets with a condensing boiler / heated floors on both floors, the bill remains "reasonable" (around 1 euros / year for nearly 000 m²), so little "nuke" (electricity consumed by the boiler / circulator); the replacement of the class B circulator by the new generation of permanent magnet circulators is planned; and little CO² of fossil origin (since this year, my pellets have traveled 160 km by truck!)

- suddenly, over-isolate: 1) worries about the siding to be removed and which will split, these are rough siding - therefore not possible to put it back; 2) will have an IRR even much worse than PV (because my heating is not expensive enough! And gaining a little more will have a cost but a limited efficiency - compared to a thermal wreck) or I recall that it was from there we were gone! It would be better than this PV project!


The roof maybe? to plant trees ?
nuke or co2 + ozone layer, for me it's as good as the other. In any case, I am quite certain that we will not leave the nuke with the current PV, not even a little. At most, this will help reduce the differences between consumption and production.
Now you have € 12k to burn, it is not common and let's say that our opinions do not concern you. PV is no worse than anything else. I also will not have spent as much as you in the pellet boiler, I am still far from being able to be satisfied with investments so unprofitable.
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by Did67 » 25/08/13, 10:04

I welcome this beautiful convergence of ideas, finally.

And the testimony of ex-océano, who explained how he got caught on another thread. Maybe you can put the link back if you want?

And yes, there are profiles "to be pigeon-holed" and "suspicious by nature" (like me - any major purchase is objectified by an Excel table, with either the characteristics of the materials; or +, ++, + ++ and -, -, --- when there is no quantified data; at the bottom of the table the total, the price; any investment is calculated "acaht + operation) ...

Well, in the 21st century, you have to get used to the idea that a salesperson who sells service is believing in Santa Claus! We are half a century behind in our heads. We react as if we were facing a post-war craftsman, like the cousin of the nephew of the aunt from the nearby village, who, in effect, "was doing a service". Socially obligated. We went to see "his" mechanic, "his" heating site "... And we followed the advice with our eyes closed. Today, shark companies employ young people trained in arnauqe in business schools. Paid on the job. The confrontation of these two attitudes is fatal for the customer!

The fact remains that sometimes we do not have the data to "objectify": evolution over 15 years in the price of energy ??? For the boiler, I nevertheless made a bet (even if I objectified the choice of the brand / model!) ...

Or, in the debate here: sustainability of such a society (because its commitments are only worth its lifetime!) ...

An example of the interest of this kind of paintings: when the children were all still there (3 children), we wanted to change our Xantia. The "fashionable" car was the Scénic or the Picasso ... In all the pubs, all the promotions!

I made a table and very quickly saw that a second-hand C5 Petrol (sold off because unsaleable, all options included), converted to LPG was 2 times cheaper and "consumed" less than Diesel, while polluting infinitely ( I had already inquired about particles - which is now written). In the operation, I won much more than the price of a 3 kWp kit !!! And I have a hell of a road, over-equipped (but ugly! I'm talking about the 2 series, not the 3 series revamped Audi style)
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by BobFuck » 25/08/13, 10:08

Did67 wrote:a) IT IS NOT GOVERNMENT !!!


False argument.

The CSPE and the feed-in tariff are political decisions.

Basing your bizness plan on this amounts to speculating on the ability of government policies to honor their promises ... it's quite risky as we see in our European colleagues, especially the Spanish.

In any case, you must above all avoid borrowing to install it, and ensure that you will not be naked if a Spanish scenario occurs (end of the feed-in tariff AND tax on electricity produced by PV, even for self-consumption, really the ultimate in bullshit! ...)

Even if it meant subsidizing, research should have been subsidized to obtain faster, more efficient and less expensive PVs. Or look for more economical construction systems (according to the latest news, we always build cinder block crap isolated from the inside). Or clean up the town planning code to stop putting a spanner in the works for those who want to build green. Etc.

Wasting taxpayer dollars in the installation of ineffective and rapidly obsolete PVs is a bad investment that impoverishes everyone.

In a few years, VPs will cost the same price as tiles. So there will be no more questions to ask, it will grow everywhere without ruining anyone!

If you want to do an ecological action (it is praiseworthy), your barrack is already too perfected ... why not do a little volunteering in counseling if you have the skills? Find people who live in thermal wrecks and give them advice, or go to beavers to help young people who are building not to do bullshit, etc.

> I have half-enough heart capacity left to live

It means that you are at the level of a young city dweller today : Mrgreen:
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by Did67 » 25/08/13, 12:40

Philippe Schutt wrote:
The roof maybe? to plant trees ?
nuke or co2 + ozone layer, for me it's as good as the other. In any case, I am quite certain that we will not leave the nuke with the current PV, not even a little. At most, this will help reduce the differences between consumption and production.
Now you have € 12k to burn, it is not common and let's say that our opinions do not concern you. PV is no worse than anything else. I also will not have spent as much as you in the pellet boiler, I am still far from being able to be satisfied with investments so unprofitable.


You posted while I was writing:

a) I don't have 12 euros "to blaze" ; by consumption choices (and an "honest" income I condone - I pay around 1 euros of IR to locate, by declaring everything of everything), I can "release" a financing of this amount (but how much can it if they just give up on buying the latest "trendy" car model - so that's also sometimes a choice !; but I admit, I'm not on a minimum wage)

So also a sum of choices throughout my life: heating (see below), cars [a driver who likes beautiful cars will spend on cars the value of a beautiful house during his lifetime, except that he there will be nothing left for him!], no temptation on the I-something side [there too, 600 euros for the I-phone, to be changed every 2 - 3 years ... Here too, that ends up weighing]

b) my pellet boiler was a "profitable" operation (in the IRR sense) - I recover the setting in about 8 or 9 years (I am my consumer on a spreadsheet and the equivalent cost would have cost me the equivalent of fuel purchased at the same time - according to the Ministry's PEGASE database); afterwards, I save for myself; if the boiler lasts 15 to 20 years, I will "earn" around 10 euros (almost the "net" cost of the PV project !!!

So unprofitable, you say ???

About 10 euros spent to save almost as much, all over 000 years ??? What's the best ???

[NB: it was at the time - 2007 - when the tax credit was 50%, where the Alsace Region paid additional aid but where I raised a lot of questions, even mockery when I talked about that; no reliable data at the time - I looked for the info in Germany / Austria; therefore there is a part of opportunity, part of luck, part of "calculated risk"; to tell you, my neighbor first shared my project and on a similar house, thought to do the same thing; and pusi he was afraid, find out from specialists who told him that it would not work, that he would only have problems to give him ... a gas boiler on a propane tank !!!! So yes, sometimes you have to think and trace your own path ...]

PS: I planted trees in my garden; fruit trees when I arrived; my garden is surrounded by deciduous hedges, including hornbeams, including hazel trees (for hazelnuts). Suddenly, it is teeming with birds in shambles, with squirrels too, and ... produces BRF (Rameal Fragmented Wood) for my garden.

The forest, I do not think I will invest. This image of the "old forest owners" doesn't "plug" me ... But it's a good idea. [I worked on reforestation in Africa]
Last edited by Did67 the 25 / 08 / 13, 13: 29, 2 edited once.
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by Did67 » 25/08/13, 12:54

BobFuck wrote:
If you want to do an ecological action (it is praiseworthy), your barrack is already too perfected ... why not do a little volunteering in counseling if you have the skills? Find people who live in thermal wrecks and give them advice, or go to beavers to help young people who are building not to do bullshit, etc.

> I have half-enough heart capacity left to live

It means that you are at the level of a young city dweller today: mrgreen:


Sorry, it will show off, but I have 4 years of full volunteering (without salary, without social security contributions or retirement contribution) in Africa on the clock ...

I continue to "campaign" for the development of pellet boilers - and smart heating regulations and PV and biomethane and a few other lubbies - on forums : this one (trace my almost 5 posts and you'll see) and on futura (ditto). So, yes, I am an activist. Not in a party! A sort of fear.

And one of my plans for my approaching retirement is to become a “public writer” on market days to help people “less comfortable with writing” to defend their interests and resolve their disputes (businesses, administration). In addition to gardening "in a deckchair with a glass of beer in your hand" ("plmus que bio"), which I also think will popularize through collective action in my town or the surrounding area (in addition to the net) ...

So here too, I am delighted that we share some ideas even if I disagree with your approach to the government - not that I am sure it will not happen, but: a) until then, in France, there have never been "retroactive" measures on commitments or contracts, it is in principle unconstitutional; a reduced tax credit for new beneficiaries, if applicable during the year; therefore the contract signed with EdF - I remind you - has a legal value which only the bankruptcy of EdF could call into question; of course, the tariff can be revised downwards, for contracts from the date of the measurement; b) of course, a "big crac" - like Russian loan canceled by the Bolsheviks - cannot formally be excluded; but it is much more likely that my heart will not stop beating, so if I "fear" that, I do nothing more!). Knowing that there are still a few thousand deaths on the roads, 3 or 4 rail accidents this summer, then you don't move!
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