Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

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Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

by Christophe » 06/02/21, 19:33

Subject divided since solar-photovoltaic / all-that-what-it-takes-know-about-the-photovoltaic-en-France-t7302-520.html

sicetaitsimple wrote:The prices (in € / kW per year) are there


This table is just the set of the TAX TO HAVE THE RIGHT to have a PV installation... We must add any overruns (you are never at 0 kwh either an injection, consumption <production, or you take, consumption> production ....) ... I posted a .xls above otherwise seems to me to be back in full force this time!

PROSUMER TAX SIMULATION CALCULATOR

Simulator-prosumer.xlsx
(5.24 million) Downloaded times 10


If you are in negative you still pay the fixed amount even if you inject 2000 kWh ... "free" ...

2 examples for you to better understand the PROSUMER tax scam that was set up by an organized gang of crooks:

a) I produce more than I consume

I have 2.9 kWp, I produce 2630 kWh, I have consumed 1830 kWh ...I inject 800 kWh "for free" and I pay ... 275 € ... for having graciously injected these 800 kWh ...These 800kWh will of course be sold to my neighbors ... for around € 264 (here the kWh, all inclusive, is at € 0.33) ... There is therefore DOUBLE invoicing from the energy supplier and theft and concealment of kWh by the GRD since they did not pay the power producer the kWh (me)!

Vol_taxeprosumer.png
Vol_taxeprosumer.png (91.2 KiB) Viewed 953 times


b) I consume more than what I produce

I have 2.9 kWp, I produce 2630 kWh, I consumed 3630 kWh because I had a boiler failure and I no longer heated with electricity for 5 weeks ... I take 1 kWh and I pay...433 € tax for these 1000 kWh ... so I pay 0.43 € / kWh ... which is MORE EXPENSIVE per kWh actually consumed than someone who has NOT made the PV investment ... is it just for that who has invested several thousand euros to produce low-carbon green energy ???

Vol_taxeprosumer_prelevement.png
Vol_taxeprosumer_prelevement.png (91.66 KiB) Viewed 953 times


The worst is that if these 2 years follow the new meter does not take into account the 1000 kWh injected free of charge since the new consumption index is that deducted from the injection

YOU UNDERSTAND WHY I TALK ABOUT SCAM NOW?

Respond by playing smart by saying that it's the same in France and you take a slap!

c) Remind me where I said MY installation cost me 8000 € ??? : Shock: : Shock: : Shock: : Shock:

It cost me a little less 4000 € for 2.9 kWp or a little less than 1.4 € / Wp (it's not integrated) ... I had to make a profit in less than 5 years and I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY ASSISTANCE neither with the installation nor with the use !!!

As you can see above, I will be taxed at € 275 per YEAR FOR 0 kWh consumed ...

This profucker tax represents more than 60% of my BEFORE bill so, mathematically, this triples my ROI which will be between 13 to 15 years old ... and if the UPS fails before or there is another problem, it will not be NEVER profitable!

With this tax (the political and media promises spoke of exemption in the conditions of my installation !!), I would have kept the 4000 € to buy a car ... This is where we are when we are led by crooks who don't give a damn about the climate and future generations ... They are criminals!

Please keep your lesson in morality and calculation for someone else because in this case you are the jerk who did not even understand the basis of taxation ...
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Re: Everything you need to know about photovoltaics in France

by Christophe » 06/02/21, 19:39

Ah and do not use the shitty argument that this tax is to compensate for the variation in production / consumption ...

Why is that a shitty argument?

Because the non-owners of PV panels are not taxed on the variability of consumption !! In the name of what sleight of hand are the prosumers who have invested thousands of euros? !
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Re: Everything you need to know about photovoltaics in France

by Christophe » 06/02/21, 19:50

sicetaitsimple wrote:On the other hand, mixing all the numbers dishonestly harms your argument ...
Because if you talk about your installation of 3kWp I believe, which came to you at around € 8000, it is not € 1500 that you will have to pay but less than € 300 / year.
And even the largest installations eligible for the "counter running backwards", 10kWp, will pay less than 1000 € / year.


3 sentences 3 bullshit and a bit of defamation ...

YOU ARE A TOCARD

Come on, let's laugh a little: 10 kWp (or 9100 kWh produced and injected) for 3000 kWh consumed in addition (12100 kWh consumed in total) that gives this:

3000kwh.png
3000kwh.png (57 KiB) Viewed 1013 times


Either a kWh taken at the real price of 1382/3000 = 0.46 € / kWh WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT the amortization OF THE INSTALLATION (which may well double this price !!) Or a price per kWh close to 8 times more than in FRANCE WITHOUT PV !!

YES A TOCARD

It's WALBANIE !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Re: Everything you need to know about photovoltaics in France

by thibr » 06/02/21, 21:06

cool ... we breathe : Shock:
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Re: Everything you need to know about photovoltaics in France

by Remundo » 07/02/21, 08:22

no but you should know that Mr Complicated has the art of annoying people under the guise of condescending courtesy with the sauce "I know everything".

And Christophe is a bit on edge at times, so there you go ...

We relax eh ... : roll:
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Re: Everything you need to know about photovoltaics in France

by Christophe » 08/02/21, 11:11

Remundo wrote:And Christophe is a bit on edge at times, so there you go ...


0a06b41543b73bb767d76456609e84c2.jpg
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Re: Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

by ENERC » 08/02/21, 13:00

Hoping not to pass me off as a jerk, I will compare to the French case:
- In France, incoming and outgoing flows are counted separately.
- take the typical case of a surplus sale with a purchase price of 10 € cts
- I have priced your case at 10kW, but in France the maximum limit is 6KW

I produce 10MWh annually and I consume 13 MWh. But my self-consumption rate is say 35%.
Balance sheet:
- 3500 kWh are "free" (self-consumption)
- 7500 kWh are sold in excess, i.e. 750 €
- I buy 7500kWh + 3000KWh, or 10,5MWh at 18 ct, or € 1890
it costs me 1890-750 -> 1190 €
So it is more or less the same as in Belgium.

In Belgium, the 7500 kWh not consumed which turns the meter upside down at noon in summer, you use to run it upright in winter. It's a bit normal to pay for the power stations that supply you with juice in the winter, isn't it?

You complain, but that's the French price. The solution to lower this prosumer tax is to increase your self-consumption rate (with batteries for example or controlled DHW)
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Re: Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

by Christophe » 08/02/21, 13:19

ENERC wrote:I produce 10MWh annually and I consume 13 MWh. But my self-consumption rate is say 35%.
Balance sheet:
- 3500 kWh are "free" (self-consumption)
- 7500 kWh are sold in excess, i.e. 750 €
- I buy 7500kWh + 3000KWh, or 10,5MWh at 18 ct, or € 1890
it costs me 1890-750 -> 1190 €
So it is more or less the same as in Belgium.


It was well tried except that ...

Your reasoning is completely wrong !!!

In France, with the 2 meters, one for production, one for consumption ... 100% of PV production is sold to EDF and invoiced by the prosumer to EDF at a rate (still) sponsored periodically (once a year) .

I believe this rate is roughly 2 times the market price !! A few years ago it was 5 times!


La notion of self-consumption is not taken into account in France (even if physically there is a part of the electrons which goes into self-consumption!)

So in France if you produce 10 MWh PV you receive roughly the equivalent of 20 MWh at the market price! So ask Remundo if he loses money with his 2 PV plants !!

So if you actually consume 13 MWh you still have a bonus owed by EDF of 20 -13 = 7 MWh market price (18 cents seems high to me I thought it was 15? So 7000 * 0.15 = € 1050 paid by EDF AU PROSUMER since EDF owed it 0.3 * 10 = € 000 and it consumed 3000 * 0.15 = € 13 !).

So it doesn't cost you the French prosumer and you still earn money !!

In this example, the consumption on the grid must exceed DOUBLE the PV production for the prosumer to start having to pay EDF! In any case the French prosumer is racketeering if it is at equilibrium (0 kWh consumed) or if it injects more than it consumes !!


I say double because I took an approximate factor of 2 but you can repeat all these calculations with the real factor (I believe that it is 0.25 € / kWh PV the new contracts ... but I do not know if it is HT or with VAT ... in short, you have to refine a little in any case it is not RACKET!)

ENERC wrote:In Belgium, the 7500 kWh not consumed which turns the meter upside down at noon in summer, you use to run it upright in winter. It's a bit normal to pay for the power stations that supply you with juice in the winter, isn't it?


Yes absolutely, but not with a sum of racketeering that represents 60% of the invoice BEFORE PV and not a contribution that represents per kWh actually consumed MORE than those without PV and who have preferred changed car rather than putting on PV !!

Nah, but climate hypocrisy is enough!

Must say how?

So yes, okay for a few dozen euros of annual contribution without any worries! But certainly not hundreds of € of incompressible mafia tax which multiplies my ROI by 3 and certainly nullifies the profitability of the installation !!

ENERC wrote:You complain, but that's the French price. The solution to lower this prosumer tax is to increase your self-consumption rate (with batteries for example or controlled DHW)


False I come to dismantle your completely biased reasoning!
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Re: Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

by ENERC » 08/02/21, 13:38

You base yourself on old numbers:
tariffs.png
tariffs.png (47.71 KiB) Viewed 786 times


The notion of self-consumption does not come into account in France (even if physically some of the electrons go into self-consumption!)

Yes Yes. The Linky counts back and forth in real time. You produce, you turn on the oven, it exceeds production and you pay anyway, even if 15 minutes later you are in surplus again.
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Re: Photovoltaic: the Belgian Prosumer Tax is a financial and political scam!

by Christophe » 08/02/21, 13:45

Ok source to start?

So it's less interesting ok (it's very recent) but what does that change ???

It is not because it is less interesting that it is racketeering, theft and concealment as in Belgium!

It just changes that NEW PV installations will fall since the price of the purchased kWh is lower than the market price! So it is no longer a juicy placement (and so much the better, the cracks will no longer be there !!) ...

So even with these 2021 numbers:

a) The French prosumer who is at 0 kWh pays NOTHING VS € 275 per year in Belgium !!

If he consumes a little he pays the price of the kWh of a non-prosumer: no problem with that!

It promotes the fact of being in balance!

But there is no racket for "use of the network" on injection !!

b) The French prosumer which injects 800 kWh (to use my example above) with these new tariffs on the network will be paid 80 € VS 275 € to be paid in Belgium !! Advantage in France: 355 € per year!

c) Last but not least these new tariffs are NOT RETROACTIVE (I suppose?) unlike the Belgian prosumer tax !! The ultimate state scam that are retroactive taxes !!

So my old figures are still valid for the vast majority of PV installations in France ... and this will remain the norm since the number should no longer really increase (and that's a shame ... but it's not the debate...)

So ask Remundo !! I think it is 0.65 € per kWh PV purchased!

So no, it's not really the same as in Belgium !!! : Evil:
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