Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?

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Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Christophe » 28/08/22, 23:06

Recently, during an electrical project in my street, there was an SDMO 400 kVA emergency generator set...it did not supply my address but I still asked myself the question with regard to photovoltaics...

It is specified on the operator's site that a solar inverter automatically goes into safety when it is powered by a generator...how can the solar inverter know that it is generator current?

For a group connected directly, it's actually easy: injection is impossible...but for a group that goes through the network with other consumers, I don't quite understand...

Another question: can we simulate the network with a pure sinus inverter connected to a battery?

Given the risks of blackout to come for this winter, I would like to take a few precautions to at least be able to take advantage of my photovoltaic production in the event of a power cut! : Evil: : Evil:
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by sicetaitsimple » 28/08/22, 23:36

Do not ask me for any additional explanation that I would be hard pressed to provide, but everything is explained in 1.6.5 of the document here:

https://www.photovoltaique.info/media/f ... e_0126.pdf

Unless it is much simpler than that, Cf. A3 on page 23 of the document, where it is written that in the event of supply of a network isolated by a backup group, the frequency of the latter is regulated at 50,3Hz. As the threshold for triggering inverters by high frequency is set at 50,2Hz, that's good!
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Christophe » 28/08/22, 23:49

Ok thank you I understood (yes) so that's done… and to simulate the network with an inverter (pure sine), is it possible?
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Obamot » 28/08/22, 23:52

Christophe wrote:Recently, during an electrical project in my street, there was an SDMO 400 kVA emergency generator set...it did not supply my address but I still asked myself the question with regard to photovoltaics...

It is specified on the operator's site that a solar inverter automatically goes into safety when it is powered by a generator...how can the solar inverter know that it is generator current?

For a group connected directly, it's actually easy: injection is impossible...but for a group that goes through the network with other consumers, I don't quite understand...

Another question: can we simulate the network with a pure sinus inverter connected to a battery?

Given the risks of blackout to come for this winter, I would like to take a few precautions to at least be able to take advantage of my photovoltaic production in the event of a power cut! : Evil: : Evil:
It's simple, can we put a small solar panel at 50 roros "who continues to make believe that you are connected to the network and who “sends a small kek'choz to EDF, and 98% of the rest is for bibi, more connected to the network... And if they come unexpectedly...
“Oh sorry, I had a breakdown, I'm testing there... Oooh but I'm very very busy, it's been dragging on for months...”

: Mrgreen:
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by sicetaitsimple » 28/08/22, 23:57

Christophe wrote:…and to simulate the network with an inverter (pure sinus), is it possible?


No idea, but I imagine that in this case it is 1.6.5, which I understand absolutely nothing, which applies.
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Christophe » 29/08/22, 00:01

Obamot wrote:
Christophe wrote:Recently, during an electrical project in my street, there was an SDMO 400 kVA emergency generator set...it did not supply my address but I still asked myself the question with regard to photovoltaics...

It is specified on the operator's site that a solar inverter automatically goes into safety when it is powered by a generator...how can the solar inverter know that it is generator current?

For a group connected directly, it's actually easy: injection is impossible...but for a group that goes through the network with other consumers, I don't quite understand...

Another question: can we simulate the network with a pure sinus inverter connected to a battery?

Given the risks of blackout to come for this winter, I would like to take a few precautions to at least be able to take advantage of my photovoltaic production in the event of a power cut! : Evil: : Evil:
It's simple, can we put a small solar panel at 50 roros "who continues to make believe that you are connected to the network and who “sends a small kek'choz to EDF, and 98% of the rest is for bibi, more connected to the network... And if they come unexpectedly...
“Oh sorry, I had a breakdown, I'm testing there... Oooh but I'm very very busy, it's been dragging on for months...”

: Mrgreen:


Are you guy there?
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Obamot
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Obamot » 29/08/22, 00:06

I take it that's not possible... : Idea:

I'm about to install solar panels...!
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Forhorse » 29/08/22, 07:55

Christophe wrote:Ok thank you I understood (yes) so that's done… and to simulate the network with an inverter (pure sine), is it possible?


Yes it is possible, Victron offers this kind of solution with its multiplus. Other manufacturers will no doubt offer the same thing.
At Victron the only rule to respect for this (in addition to a correct configuration of the installation) is to respect the rule of 1 for 1: if you have a solar inverter of 1kW you need a multiplus of 1 kW
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by Christophe » 29/08/22, 10:19

I don't know the Victron range well but I know that hybrid inverters exist... except that they cost double...

From what I see the Multiplus makes it possible to hybridize a classic inverter already in place, so this could answer the question but it is much more expensive than an inverter...

My question is therefore whether, in the event of a power failure, you can fake a non-hybrid inverter with a 100-150€ pure sine inverter connected to the battery to simulate a network in blackout...

Obviously a source inverter must be provided otherwise it will smoke in the event of current on the network!

Network off = 100% self-consumed solar power + back-up on the battery via the inverter.

The concern of this solution is that the battery will not be recharged because the inverter is probably not going to be bidirectional : Mrgreen: and that this therefore risks grilling one of the 2 inverters or both... :| :| :|

Where then if the solar inverter is well made, it will only inject what is consumed?

I want to try the experiment but if I can avoid burning 1 or 2 inverters that would be good... so I would like to be sure before...
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Re: Solar inverter on generator or on battery inverter?




by sicetaitsimple » 29/08/22, 12:56

Christophe wrote:My question is therefore whether, in the event of a power failure, you can fake a non-hybrid inverter with a 100-150€ pure sine inverter connected to the battery to simulate a network in blackout...


If it can help you, another document, perhaps a little old (2011) on protections against operation in isolation, so the one you would like to implement.

https://www.photovoltaique.info/media/f ... e_2011.pdf
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