PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?

Forum solar photovoltaic PV and solar electricity generation from direct radiation solar energy.
Lou Garou
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PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Lou Garou » 26/07/22, 11:22

I am in the process of consulting to have photovoltaic panels installed.

Some swear by the centralized inverter, others by the micro-inverters. Could you direct me? What are the pros/cons of each?

Thank you in advance for your advice

Lou Garou
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phil59
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Re: Centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by phil59 » 27/07/22, 15:58

For what type of installation first, what promise of production, what orientation, inclination, kWp installed?????

1 kWp installed will give you around 1000 kWh, year, according to different criteria, only when it is daytime, not necessarily when you need it.

I only have 4 small panels each with a micro inverter.

If I install more, I will put a hybrid inverter, to be able to have a "storage" evolution on battery.

Currently, an installation made by a pro, with all the papers going well, is around €5-7000, for 3 kWp.

If you do it alone, cheaper, but not necessarily all the papers that go well. (I didn't, I did it alone).

The panels, generally, not too much to fear, in 50 years, they should still work, with 20% less capacity, so not worrying.

An inverter is about 10 years old.

A shadow on a panel with an inverter can lower all production, with micro inverters, you will only have the panel "in the shade", which will produce less.

Micro inverters, more expensive, but in case of failure, you do not lose all your production ....
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Re: Centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Lou Garou » 27/07/22, 17:08

Thank you for your answer Phil59.
I made a request to 3 installers to install photovoltaic panels to power my house and resell the excess to EDF. I live in Provence, the house faces south, roof hinge 15°. For the moment, the installers are responding and calculating what power to install based on my consumption (3900kwh in 2021). We may be moving towards 3kwh (8 panels).
For now I have an answer, supplier A: PV field power: 4kwc, 10 panels, centralized inverter Fronius Primo 3.0-1, he takes care of the formalities = 9965€
I have just received a supplier B (large group), who according to his calculations offers me an installation with micro-inverters, 4 panels or 1,4kwh for €10500 or 6 panels or 2,25kwh for €12500, he takes care of the formalities. I'm waiting for the response from the 3rd who also recommends micro-inverters.
I note of course that I am far from the price you mention!
I allow myself to recall my initial question: what are the advantages/disadvantages of a centralized inverter in relation to micro-inverters?
Thanks in advance for all your experiences.
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Re: PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Christophe » 27/07/22, 19:32

Micro inverters are only of interest in the case of large solar masks on the solar panels to avoid string blockages...

And in construction, the rule is simple: the simpler it is, the longer it lasts!

30 micro-inverters instead of a centralized one is 30 times more likely to break down!

I have big doubts about the durability of the micro-inverter electronics for more than 10 or 15 years given the significant variations in climatic conditions! Especially overheating in summer!

So my advice is to have a centralized inverter...unless you have large sun masks...
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Re: Centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Christophe » 27/07/22, 19:36

LouGarou wrote:Thank you for your answer Phil59.
I made a request to 3 installers to install photovoltaic panels to power my house and resell the excess to EDF. I live in Provence, the house faces south, roof hinge 15°. For the moment, the installers are responding and calculating what power to install based on my consumption (3900kwh in 2021). We may be moving towards 3kwh (8 panels).
For now I have an answer, supplier A: PV field power: 4kwc, 10 panels, centralized inverter Fronius Primo 3.0-1, he takes care of the formalities = 9965€
I have just received a supplier B (large group), who according to his calculations offers me an installation with micro-inverters, 4 panels or 1,4kwh for €10500 or 6 panels or 2,25kwh for €12500, he takes care of the formalities. I'm waiting for the response from the 3rd who also recommends micro-inverters.
I note of course that I am far from the price you mention!
I allow myself to recall my initial question: what are the advantages/disadvantages of a centralized inverter in relation to micro-inverters?
Thanks in advance for all your experiences.


Is it integrated or on the roof?

Because these are crazy prices in €/Wc!

A non-integrated solar installation currently costs €1.5 to €2 per Wp (closer to 1.5) with already a good margin for the installer!

Obviously the margoulins will recommend micro inverters: it increases their margin. : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

Here, compare the prices with where I bought mine at Alma Solar: https://www.econologie.com/installer-de ... ergetique/ (they deliver in France...)

You will take your quotes and use them in the WC I think : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
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Re: Centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by phil59 » 27/07/22, 19:38

I think it's very expensive, for what you install, even with the resale to "EDF other"!

At 15° slope, it's great June-July...

The big months are from April to September, after which it drops considerably, especially at a 15° inclination.

We will say that you will produce 4000 kWh/year, if you resell everything, it's 400€ per year... 10 cents per kWh resale.

At €10, it's been 000 years to amortize, and it's not market prices... the range, even with the increase, remains at €25-5 for 7000 kWp.

The panels will last a long time, but the inverter costs around 1000-1500€ for 10 years...

THE resale, at 10 cents, I don't think that's the solution.
What is your instantaneous consumption that you have, always, the device watches, the box, etc ....

If you cover that, in view of your consumption, 1-2 panels could be enough, largely, without resale...

My background noise, consumption of the house always, it's about 200Wh, and I have 0,760 kWp installed, too much for the summer, not enough in the winter, in the north of France, and inclined panels, optimized, for the winter, at 60°. With that, I give around, for free, 100 kWh to the network, for free, and if I was paid, it would be 10€/year...

But my installation cost me, with OCCAZ, around €260, installed by me. Amortization in 2.5 years.

Another solution, would be to put batteries, or "virtual" battery to see, can be more interesting than resale.
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Re: PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by sicetaitsimple » 27/07/22, 19:49

Christophe wrote:[....to avoid blocking strings...[/b]


Ah the blocking of string, it is dreadful .....
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Re: PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by phil59 » 27/07/22, 19:56

sicetaitsimple wrote:
Ah the blocking of string, it is dreadful .....


Blocking a wind instrument is hard...

24072022.JPG
conso 24072022.JPG (38.57 KiB) Viewed 518 times


Here is my consumption of 24/07/22, the night peaks, it was during the charging of the electric car, in charge at 2 kW, approximately.

The weather was fair, and no one home.

Well thought out, for example, the shadow of a fireplace ...

Multiply failures, yes, but small failures. No production blockage, but much more expensive, yes, that's for sure.

But 15°, for winter, it shouldn't be huge in winter production....

To situate, I am in electrical consumption, at 10-12 kWh / year ....
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Re: Centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Christophe » 27/07/22, 20:08

Christophe wrote:
LouGarou wrote:Thank you for your answer Phil59.
I made a request to 3 installers to install photovoltaic panels to power my house and resell the excess to EDF. I live in Provence, the house faces south, roof hinge 15°. For the moment, the installers are responding and calculating what power to install based on my consumption (3900kwh in 2021). We may be moving towards 3kwh (8 panels).
For now I have an answer, supplier A: PV field power: 4kwc, 10 panels, centralized inverter Fronius Primo 3.0-1, he takes care of the formalities = 9965€
I have just received a supplier B (large group), who according to his calculations offers me an installation with micro-inverters, 4 panels or 1,4kwh for €10500 or 6 panels or 2,25kwh for €12500, he takes care of the formalities. I'm waiting for the response from the 3rd who also recommends micro-inverters.
I note of course that I am far from the price you mention!
I allow myself to recall my initial question: what are the advantages/disadvantages of a centralized inverter in relation to micro-inverters?
Thanks in advance for all your experiences.


Is it integrated or on the roof?

Because these are crazy prices in €/Wc!

A non-integrated solar installation currently costs €1.5 to €2 per Wp (closer to 1.5) with already a good margin for the installer!

Obviously the margoulins will recommend micro inverters: it increases their margin. : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

Here, compare the prices with where I bought mine at Alma Solar: https://www.econologie.com/installer-de ... ergetique/ (they deliver in France...)

You will take your quotes and use them in the WC I think : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:


To bring it down to earth a little, here are the real prices at the end of 2021 for uninstalled solar panels.... you have to add the delivery (150 to 300€), the installation (around 2000€) and the inverter (500 to 1500€ )..unless you pose yourself... Some people do!

In the end you should be at 1.5€ to 2€ for the "turnkey" toilet... beyond that there is clear and clear over-billing!

So I just updated the table of the article which was quite difficult to understand here is an easier to understand one: Alma solar sold all solar panels at public price excluding VAT at less than €0.5 per toilet at the end of 2021 : https://www.econologie.com/installer-de ... ergetique/

Image

Alma Solar's prices have changed a bit since then, but not that much: https://www.alma-solarshop.fr/235-panneaux-solaires#/

In short, I think you can remind the companies of your 3 quotes, especially the last 2, and ask them frankly whether they provide Vaseline with the solar installation or not!!!

: Lol: : Lol: : Lol: : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
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Re: PV: centralized inverter or micro-inverter?




by Christophe » 27/07/22, 20:17

phil59 wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
Ah the blocking of string, it is dreadful .....


Blocking a wind instrument is hard...

(...)

To situate, I am in electrical consumption, at 10-12 kWh / year ....


Do you do Perceval there? Smokestack shadow, wind, electric car...consumption/production? You are mixing a lot of things = we have absolutely NOTHING INCLUDED!
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