The real prices and costs of photovoltaic solar panels in China

Forum solar photovoltaic PV and solar electricity generation from direct radiation solar energy.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 08/09/11, 09:37

Huh? Govern? We are talking about aeva, total, edf there ... not a government (although only for edf ...) ...

They seek and apply what will bring them the most money. There is not even to discuss the above ...

Edf will remain private as long as it brings in money and will be public in the event of an accident ...
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bernardd
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by bernardd » 08/09/11, 10:09

elephant wrote:bernadd said:
The gross power of the panel is not significant, you have to look at the power according to its surface.

It depends.
If you live in a city where the roofs are small and the work expensive, you will prefer a panel with high surface efficiency.
On the other hand, if you have the surface, a low roof with easy access, as generally your wallet is not extendable, you can make a better deal with "second choice" panels.


And you clearly demonstrate that to have an idea of ​​the quality, you have to know the surface area associated with the power, so that the power of the panel is not enough on its own, which I call being "insignificant" :-)

I also thought like you that the pfd played on the price, but it seems from the contacts I have, that this is no longer true, at least at the discussion stage where I am currently.

Furthermore, I insist on having the best surface power possible for the price I indicated (200W for 1580x808mm or 156Wp / m2 at 1,18usd / Wc or 0,84 € / Wp this morning) because it shows that these panels have better quality than the majority of panels available in Europe today.

Let's not forget that all the most expensive electronic products currently produced in China, including all i-stuff.
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by Christophe » 08/09/11, 10:20

bernardd wrote:Furthermore, I insist on having the best surface power possible for the price I indicated (200W for 1580x808mm or 156Wp / m2 at 1,18usd / Wc or 0,84 € / Wp this morning) because it shows that these panels have better quality than the majority of panels available in Europe today.


As Elephant said, performance is variable.

On the same order of "identical" panels, I think that you can very well have some panels at 145Wc / m² and others at 155Wp / m² ... There is surely a tolerance given by the manufacturers ...
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bernardd
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by bernardd » 08/09/11, 10:30

Christophe wrote:On the same order of "identical" panels, I think you can very well have 145Wc / m² and 155Wp / m² ... Surely there is a margin given by the manufacturers, isn't it?


Of course, this is indicated in the panel spec in several forms depending on the manufacturer: for example Wc +/- 3% or Wc 0 / + 5%

In fact it is linked to the negotiation of the price: if an order has only panels below the target, there is cropping ...

5% on 200Wp is 10W so at worst 148Wp / m2 for +/- 5%.

By the way, manufacturers have an interest in selling efficient panels, because the price being set at Wp, the price per panel increases. And in parallel the gray energy decreases ...

Anyway, as soon as the quantities become significant, there are surplus panels to compensate for any problems.
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by bernardd » 08/09/11, 11:01

rpsantina wrote:The gray energy is not negligible since it takes 2 to 3 years of operation for the panels to have generated as much energy as what was used for the manufacture only of the photovoltaic cell. (CF wiki or document Etude )


Soft disinformation: handscore + hespul =?
Same fight :-(

This is called coring ...

A standard photovoltaic panel is:
- a liquid silicon plate, ie glass;
- several thin crystalline silicon plates with a little metal for the electrical connections;
- a plastic plate for the back;
- an aluminum frame.

In another heavier version, the plastic plate is replaced by another glass plate, and the aluminum frame becomes thinner because the additional glass plate takes up part of the mechanical forces of the aluminum frame.

The quoted report is frightening when speaking of the impurities in the glass: but any beach or river sand, in which we roll and that children suck profusely, contains more impurities than the crystalline silicon used.

And I'm not talking about the cement of tiles: cement kilns are the biggest recycling centers ...

He goes so far as to show the horror of rivers carrying silicon! it's called .... sand.

This strategy of demonizing photovoltaics must be stopped.

I await the same report on the verandas ... Or on the cathedrals: I do not even dare look at the stained glass windows so much they are full of dangerous impurities. And I'm not talking about fireworks ...

By the way, the silicon crystal is certainly the best solution to keep impurities safe: nuclearophiles tell us about vitrification to keep their waste safe. Who to believe?
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by Christophe » 08/09/11, 11:15

Santina finds us a good study that we've been looking for for years and you need to quibble? I just put it in the other subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/solaire-ph ... t3861.html

Backup link: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 0hR6xv.pdf

If there is 2 or 3 years of return on the gray energy it is good! Very good even !! And even if it was 5 years, that leaves 20 years to make the panels profitable!

What is the return on a change of car that still works with a new one (just to enhance its image in a lot of cases)? 150 to 200km !!! In other words: it's almost NEVER profitable! Yet we continue to publicly help aid for vehicle changes under the guise of ecology. This is pure and simple ecological scam !!

Please don't get the wrong target ...

On energy it is therefore largely profitable to use solar PV, on the other hand 70 g CO2 / kWh it is more than what I thought ...
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bernardd
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by bernardd » 08/09/11, 12:15

Christophe wrote:Santina finds us a good study that we've been looking for for years and you need to quibble?


It's not quibbling at all: as you can see around you, including on your forum, manipulation by language exists and is used. It is theorized for example in NLP and widely used in marketing, including electoral.

This document, interesting by its descriptive content, is obviously associated with manipulation.

What worries me most is that few people see it clearly, because most suffer it without seeing it. And propagate this manipulation without realizing it.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 08/09/11, 13:20

bernardd wrote:What worries me most is that few people see it clearly, because most suffer it without seeing it. And propagate this manipulation without realizing it.
This is the goal of all manipulation.
So forum, by sharing our opinions and defending our ideas, we also make a form of NLP and proselytism, the gap is not very wide between that and manipulation, education / training, marketing ...

I admit that I have very different opinions today than those expressed for years on this forum. Sometimes when I reread myself ...
: Shock:
10 minutes ago, I learned things about the link between thermal phase shift and density that changed my vision of insulation ...
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elephant
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by elephant » 08/09/11, 13:51

Bernard said:

because it shows that these panels have better quality than the majority of panels available in Europe today.


Soft !

2 things:

announcing a number is one thing, playing with tolerances is another! Do you know a lot of consumers or even installers who are able to check the data on the flash sheet? And what is the risk of a person who "cheats" a little? Having to replace a panel, make a discount. Still it would be necessary to provide proof of calibration of the gear.

in terms of Wc, it's all a question of purchasing power: the largest panel manufacturers are reserved the best cells, the largest installers who can afford to rely on an annual quantity reserve the best panels.

And if you end customer want the best panels, you will have to register on a waiting list: in the meantime you will not have produced anything and the price of the panels will have dropped, but you will have to pay them at the price ordered. .
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by Christophe » 08/09/11, 13:54

citro wrote:Sometimes when I reread myself ...
: Shock:


Phew, I'm not the only one then! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Well that's good; It means that we progress, that we evolve ... if it is in the "right direction" I don't know but, it is on: we change ...
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