Retirement ... at what age?

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Obamot
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View Obamot » 24/10/10, 10:55

... well wait, I don't know who's right, but the point of making stats is that. Better than burying yourself in a paradigm for obscure reasons. This pension reform does not seem to me to be justified by the sole lever of increasing life expectancy, that is clear.

I don't understand why we would have on the one hand, chosen immigration which limits the necessary supply of "new blood" (without pejorative side, it is valid in all the countries of the world, eh! And that represents an insufficient percentage to renew the generations and to pay the pensions, those which make statistics know that, it is a constant in all the Europe). Et on the other hand, we would like to pay the full price for this restriction by extending the retirement age! I find that limit facho!

It seemed logical to me that what is happening at the local level resembles more or less what is happening at the global level: which is the case, since the demographic deficit is obvious (in statistic one does not invent anything, eh ... .). But it is cowardly to try to make connections between systems which apparently have nothing to do, because it makes us enter a debate of which we do not necessarily control all the parameters (even if we try with good will lol)

So yes to the chosen retirement variable geometry, let those who want to continue working, do it to the extent of their possibilities and leave peace to others. After a lifetime of hard work, that would be the least of things ...

What comforts me in this idea is that we know that politicians often make promises that they cannot keep, because when they get to business, we see each other each time their room for maneuver is very (too!) small, except to take drastic measures which we could not always measure the consequences .... This is the only point where I join the "financial" for the indebtedness of the states, if we rig the game by artificially reducing the debt, sooner or later we are caught up by the reality on the ground. However, the debt is not always "fair", this is where the system squeals from every angle ...

Moreover, the postulate which would consist in making sure to decompartmentalize as much as possible "the real economy" de "virtual economy", would find its limits here as much as it would offer "necessary visibility" on the "gap" available to engage in a "reasonable" path. Maybe it's a good plan to do some "monitoring" after all ...

In fact the correlation that has been made is a sort of "warning". The countries that would stick too much to the "global" reality are those which are the most fragile, because they have no choice but to follow suit.

But it will be less and less possible to escape it if the markets find a way in some form of financial regulation. There we will all become interdependent. This as long as the "actors" of the market play the game, which is far from certain: where then we would need severe penalties and there is for the moment no salvation in international trade law, elsewhere than at the WTO ...

This is why I do not believe in the regulation of the world of finance, because that would block the way to hyper-productive opportunities and for that they need a free field in front of them: the price of blood.

Obviously we will have to "see the world differently". And it is not by playing double talk: on the one hand I advocate a new regulation of financial markets in a soft way and on the other hand I drastically impose a pension reform. It would have been the opposite that it would have been necessary to do: drastically impose financial operations (from 2008/2009 lol ...) and talk softly to the good people so that they eventually realize that "the party was over", not because of pensions, but of the globalization / deregularization of markets ... (re-lol ...)
Last edited by Obamot the 24 / 10 / 10, 11: 27, 1 edited once.
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chatelot16
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View chatelot16 » 24/10/10, 11:26

it's nice to look for correlation with statistics, but we must not forget to draw the right conclusion

example record the consumption of your heating and the outside temperature and the inside temperature: the correlation is obvious with the outside temperature but nothing can be done about it, the correlation is also obvious with the inside temperature: therefore the only solution is to decrease the inside temperature ! this purely statistical reasoning makes us forget that we could also improve the insulation, or change the source of energy ...

for retirement it is the same: the simplistic reasoning only gives as a solution an increase in the retirement age or an increase in contributions, or a reduction in retirement

a government that does nothing but simplistic reasoning is worthless! if he thought about it a little, he would understand that the only real solution is to take back command of the economy and rebuild the factories that have been sold off!

the situation is too serious: letting liberalism take its course will no longer be enough! the large multinationals no longer want to build in France: there are no longer the advantages of a developed country (industrial fabric), and there is not yet the advantage of low labor costs from an underdeveloped country

if we do not want to wait until we are completely underdeveloped for multinationals to come back, we must take authoritarian decisions!
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chatelot16
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View chatelot16 » 24/10/10, 11:39

Obamot wrote:So yes to the chosen retirement variable geometry, let those who want to continue working, do it to the extent of their possibilities and leave peace to others. After a lifetime of hard work, that would be the least of things ...


this is the right way to avoid giving an annoying figure: define a method of calculating the retirement amount according to the starting age, and let everyone choose ... whoever wants to leave early with a small retirement will make

this is a bit like what happens in certain Nordic countries: the bosses are obliged to take good care of their employee so that they do not retire too quickly!

it is the same problem as the working time: why choose a figure supposedly obligatory like 39h or 35h ...
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Obamot
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View Obamot » 24/10/10, 11:56

Why, do you think that taking a firm position on the basis of unfair discussions and unequal situations by doing a flat chopper would be correct? Excuse me for seeing some contradictions in your words, maybe I did not understand very well?

chatelot16 wrote:it's nice to look for correlation with statistics, but we must not forget to draw the right conclusion

example record the consumption of your heating and the outside temperature and the inside temperature: the correlation is evident with the outside temperature but we can't help it , the correlation is also evident with the interior temperature: therefore the only solution is to decrease the interior temperature! this purely statistical reasoning makes us forget that we could also improve the insulation, or change the source of energy ...

... that's what I think! There you find an excellent example.

chatelot16 wrote:for retirement it is the same: the simplistic reasoning only gives as a solution an increase in the retirement age or an increase in contributions, or a reduction in retirement

a government that does nothing but simplistic reasoning is worthless! if he thought about it a little, he would understand that the only real solution is to take back command of the economy and rebuild the factories that have been sold off!

Oh how much.

chatelot16 wrote:the situation is too serious: letting liberalism take its course will no longer be enough! the large multinationals no longer want to build in France: there are no longer the advantages of a developed country (industrial fabric), and there is not yet the advantage of low labor costs from an underdeveloped country

Everyone is stuck! But we must distinguish between real economy and financial speculation ...

chatelot16 wrote:if we do not want to wait until we are completely underdeveloped for multinationals to come back, we must take authoritarian decisions!

Drastic measures in what direction? What do you propose? This is not possible in certain cases and fortunately (moreover in which case is it possible without this disturbing something unforeseen elsewhere ...?) There are the WTO agreements that must be respected, do not forget that those who have the biggest markets can play boycott without giving a damn about the rules! Remember the imports / exports of meat from the United States and the French cheese business ...

As an example of cause and indirect effects: in our country even the peasants who are in the dairy industry go bankrupt, as in the rest of Europe ...
And this, following a drastic measure, which consisted in eliminating subsidies for agriculture and mountain breeding (and agriculture in general, even the national stud has gone there !!!) in the name of the law of supply and demand generated by the stricto sensu application of "market deregularization".

When our government stopped certain subsidies for mountain agriculture, and agriculture in general. Not only did this ruin many farmers since milk production no longer became profitable, but he did not imagine that it would have consequences on the clearing of the land by livestock and that it would lead to many fires and .. forest fires ...

Vladimir Putin also had a bitter experience this year with his forest fires. He also did not imagine, when he had taken similar measures, that subsequently, for the same drastic measures, expanses of forests of an unimaginable surface would burn in Russia ...
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Obamot
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View Obamot » 24/10/10, 13:36

Christophe wrote:Me it does not suit me ... if the quotation of crude affects the economy and deficits it is not the only one: there are many other parameters which come into play otherwise, pkoi between 85 and 98 there where the oil was low the deficit continued to climb? Interest yes ... but is not that ... is it?

And then, I will still pass for a quibble but speaking in US $ 2000 in 2010, I find it hard to understand the logic ... in 99 the $ was worth 8 French francs ... huge so ...

When we do a calculation in constant currency it is with the most recent currency ...


What numbers?

Winston Churchill said that"he only believed the numbers he had faked himself" : Mrgreen:
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chatelot16
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View chatelot16 » 24/10/10, 13:42

Obamot wrote: there are WTO agreements that must be respected


if we let the rules of liberalism be imposed, we will have the consequence: social equality between French and Chinese ... if we refuse this social equality it will be worse: it will be complete decadence

so the choice is simple: liberalism and work at the Chinese tariff or get out of liberalism to make our country work our way

if we do not choose one of these 2 solutions we do nothing and we let the decadence happen ... it's very slow we've been going for 20 years and there is still enough wealth in the circuit so that we are not yet at the bottom of the hole

what I propose as a solution: let the state directly build productive activities! out of any liberal system!

removal of anpe and rmi! and hiring everyone to build new factories, new housing, or cultivate fallow land, or make firewood in poorly maintained forests and avoid them from burning, and better maintain everything that falls into disrepair

case of agriculture: we leave a farmer all alone to get rid of cultivating ever larger with an ever larger tractor, and manufactured abroad ... while it would suffice to employ a little more staff to continue to use the same material

shifting the load of the staff to the material could balance things and push towards the right solution but it will be too slow: I find it essential to create activities in a completely interventionist manner, even if it must be privatized then
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View Obamot » 24/10/10, 13:52

So we have to withdraw from the WTO, and wait for the effects of past bi / multilateral agreements to end, so we have to re-establish a totalitarian state, because two terms are not enough to reach the end of the said agreements ... C ' is not as if we could withdraw "at any time ..."

There is the same problem with the abominable Codex Alimentarius: agro-food standards established BY the agro-food industry and which are authentic up to the WHO ... It is all to be swept away. . : Cheesy:
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View chatelot16 » 24/10/10, 14:29

that is the problem ! when the democratic state becomes entangled in absude system, will it take a totalitarian state to get out of it?

history is full of this kind of story ... for example when germany was crushed and even humiliated by excessive pressure ... who favored it?

I hope that there are still solutions to move forward without breaking everything: in the genre replacing the anpe by state enterprises, not seeking to respect the general economic system since the goal is primarily humanitarian! instead of wasting money paying people to do nothing: we will spend money to do what the liberal system is currently unable to do

I specify well currently unable to do: because I do not believe that the liberal system is necessarily bad: it is simply today seriously ill, and since we are unable to cure it we must do otherwise
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jlt22
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View jlt22 » 24/10/10, 15:04

@chatelot16

According to your reasoning, France should live in self-sufficiency.
Close borders to all imported products that we will be able to produce.
This amounts to removing 3/4 of the products sold in supermarkets to replace them with products from our country, but at a very high cost. Many French people will not be able to afford them
This will drastically reduce consumption and I very much doubt that this will be beneficial for our economy, our purchasing power and our jobs.

What we have called the 30 glorious years, are years when energy and imported raw materials were almost free.
We exported what we manufactured to countries which did not know how to produce and which went into debt to have the minimum subsistence.
The large, sparsely populated, developed countries of the day, which were practically counted on the fingers of one hand, ruled everywhere.
With this wealth imported at little cost, we were therefore able to set up a remarkable social system.

Then all these very populous countries which were under the yoke of a few sparsely populated developed countries, rolled up their sleeves and learned to manufacture, to negotiate and go very quickly.
They also want their slice of the pie and this one might not be as stretchy as you might think.
Whether we like it or not we will remain dependent on globalization.
French consumers, which we all are, want to defend all their achievements, but buy cheaper foreign products and thereby finance the economies of low-wage countries instead of financing the French economy and the social gains they defend. teeth and nails.

Of course, I will be told that the CAC 40 companies are making monstrous profits that we could redistribute a little better.
But, even if they were redistributed to employees who have sweated, I very much doubt that there is much to distribute to French employees, because it should be fair, and also distribute to foreign employees who work there.

The problem is not simple, I do not have the solution, so I would not stand for election
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View Gébé » 24/10/10, 15:10

Neither do I :) :)
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