Retirement ... at what age?

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gegyx
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View gegyx » 22/10/10, 22:40

Read the first example of pb2488, and that was enough for me ..
“For years, strong incentive policies have encouraged companies to use early retirement without any effect on the employment rate of young people. Training, the rigidity of the job market, and now the crisis may explain the French backwardness, but we certainly cannot say that retirement at 60 is an encouragement to recruit young people! "

France is therefore a special case showing the spirit and the rapacity of French leaders: always more.

But the encouragement of early retirement is simply to take advantage of a niche and get rid of the maximum of overpaid people, and to benefit from increasing productivity at the same time without having to hire, under cover of crisis ...

By arguing too heavy professional taxes, economic recession, which tilt the choice towards the reduction of the wage bill, in the absence of original employer idea.
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jlt22
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View jlt22 » 22/10/10, 23:16

@Christophe

On the site, they give the disposable income per person in the household, so children are included.
Most retirees have paid for their homes, and, really only need a car, and have less commuting.
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Christophe
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View Christophe » 23/10/10, 10:24

jlt22 wrote:Most retirees have paid for their homes, and, really only need a car, and have less commuting.


Is that what I just said?
I'm going to see the site.

pb2488, in the source, we can see this table which summarizes "everything":

Image

Gegyx you should meditate on this table before spitting on the leaders ...
Putting this table in balance with the GDP / inhabitant would show a little more the level of collateral never reached anywhere in French retirees ...because in GDP / capita, France is poorer than Germany, Japan, the USA, the UK ... so in the name of what pensioners would be entitled to more in France than in these countries? Especially since at the level of care, which retirees are heavy consumers, they are also privileged compared to these other countries, but these figures may already take this into account ...
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Christophe
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View Christophe » 23/10/10, 10:43

Christophe wrote:I'm going to see the site.


I clicked, I saw.

It is mainly geographic distribution, where do you find by age group at regional or national level?

Ah ah ah I found Chirac's salary: http://www.salairemoyen.com/salaire-48049-Chirac.html : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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jlt22
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View jlt22 » 23/10/10, 12:03

Finally a small town in France where life is good for all ..................... provided you have the means.
Yet here again the purchasing power of the retiree is greater than that of the assets, but only 6 euros.

http://www.salairemoyen.com/revenus.php ... T%C3%88CHE
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nonoLeRobot
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View nonoLeRobot » 23/10/10, 12:26

Not just the GDP / inhabitant of France is above Germany (according to IMF) sometimes it is the opposite but it holds in any case. (GDP in Germany higher but population of 80 million against 65 million in France)

Image

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_ ... B_(nominal)_per inhabitant

I just wanted to post to show this even with our 10% unemployment and our young retirees. Besides these are fashions we always compare to Germany now before the crisis we always made the comparison with England I really feel that we take what we want to do what suits us.

We must also not forget that culturally German women do not work or little, there is much more part-time (I do not find the figures). There are few crèches, it is frowned upon to leave your children in nannies etc.

For the story of our children who will no longer be able to pay blah, currently there are 2,1 children per woman in France against 1,4 in Germany. So the demographic argument can be held in Germany, not too much in France.

Finally for the story that must stop taxing the wealthiest, a study of Swiss credit shows that France is the third country to have millionaires, first in Europe. I find it hard to cry ...
Image


If not I agree enough to reprocess them do not make me cry either in general but on the other hand the argument 1 or 2 I do not believe it at all. In the short term it is obvious that 2 more years of retiree work will make 2 years less work (Companies are not created or destroyed in 2 days). In the public it will be mathematical.

In the medium term it may not be true but since the time that we are told about the sacrosanct growth that saves everything I believe little. Especially that artificially promoted employment may not be good economically but socially it is super important. Young people without work do bullshit, lose esteem, an enterprising spirit as Christophe said etc ... And even if it is not equivalent in money, it is better to pay a retiree than an unemployed person.

As for the cost problem, it's ridiculous to see the students complaining about what will happen in 40 years, it's ridiculous to show the deficit in 2050. In both cases, a ton of things will happen.

What is significant is the annual deficit, I believe from 4 to 6 billion (depending on the year). It is huge but not infeasible.

To compare:
- 3 billion for 5,5% VAT in catering
- 2 billion overtime hours exempt (promotes the economy but accelerates unemployment)
- 1 billion withdrawal of advertising on TV
- 0.6 billion tax shield
...


All that to say that in the long term this kind of reform seems normal to me but that here all the arguments that I am given seem quite false. On the other hand, blocking the country for the nth time seems to me quite annoying too (may be necessary) and the argument that we are not touching a social gain that is fairly nil.
Last edited by nonoLeRobot the 23 / 10 / 10, 13: 31, 1 edited once.
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pb2488
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View pb2488 » 23/10/10, 12:52

nonoLeRobot wrote:What is significant is the annual deficit, I believe from 4 to 6 billion (depending on the year). It is huge but not infeasible.

To compare:
- 3 billion for 5,5% VAT in catering
- 2 billion overtime hours exempt (promotes the economy but accelerates unemployment)
- 1 billion withdrawal of advertising on TV
- 0.6 billion tax shield
...
The social deficit is around 150 billion per year, of which 30 billion annually just for retreats !!!!
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nonoLeRobot
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View nonoLeRobot » 23/10/10, 13:15

Where do you have your retirement figures? I was struggling precisely.

For the total deficit, before 2002 it rarely exceeds 50 billion only 3 times (around 1993) and by little. Before 2002 often below 30. Since 2002 it is often above but does not exceed 65 billion in 2009 or it reached 140 billion.

Image

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dette_publ ... _la_France
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Gébé
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View Gébé » 23/10/10, 13:31

I thought the pension deficit figure was wrong, hey well no:

Image

actually there is starting to be serious fire :frown:
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Christophe
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View Christophe » 23/10/10, 14:18

Uh tell me if I like it but the red zone shouldn't it start at 0? : Idea: : Cheesy:

But we are far from the 150 MM € just for pensions, if I read correctly in 2010 it was 32 MM € including 16 MM € for civil servants.

Civil service = 20% of contributions but 40 to 50% of the deficit ... explain to me the BUG ???

So all in heart let's say one "big thank you" to the pov unions responsible for the current social shit and who almost exclusively defend these privileged ...

The next high school students that you will meet in the street, have a thought for the "poor pensions" of their "poor civil servant teachers" ...

It's always good to be honest ... : Cheesy:

Nono in the column "public balance" there is the interest on the debt ... so the purely social deficit is less important.

Still, 7.5 and 8.5% of GDP will hurt in France soon, will we eat Greek or Icelandic?

And to say that in 2008 we got slapped on the fingers by the EU because we had exceeded 3% ... the nice joke ...

We also see that the pinioufs who have held the country for 30 years are no more competent on the left than on the right on this point ... Only the last 2 years giscard who were in the green, when we had just suffer the 2nd oil shock ...
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