Company and PhilosophyFrançois Roddier, thermodynamics and society

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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 08/12/18, 20:44

Ahmed wrote:F. Roddier written:
... the more a society is interconnected, the more fragile it becomes ...

Conversely, a weakened society because it is no longer able to satisfy what it is based on (work, money, merchandise ...) tends to exploit micro niches through the tools of interconnectivity for temporarily escape his contradictions. This is how uberisation or new forms of marketing (professional or private) are developed on the internet.


Yes it is a kind of "over-saturation".
Economism, after having colonized geographically, tends to interfere in conceptual spaces by generating new needs via modes or societal transformations.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 08/12/18, 22:01

I would have said "interstitial" spaces, which does not preclude the fact that they are also new concepts: interstitial evokes well the phenomenon of supersaturation ... I would speak less of new needs than new ways of satisfying d former ...
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Exnihiloest » 09/12/18, 19:11

Ahmed wrote:F. Roddier written:
... the more a society is interconnected, the more fragile it becomes ...

Conversely, a weakened society because it is no longer able to satisfy what it is based on (work, money, merchandise ...) tends to exploit micro niches through the tools of interconnectivity for temporarily escape his contradictions. This is how uberisation or new forms of marketing (professional or private) are developed on the internet.

There is no question of "micro niches" in F Roddier's text, and I see no cause-and-effect relationship between supposed "contradictions" and "tools of interconnectivity". The evolution of lifestyles through technical progress is not the result of a will. The technical progress is motivated certainly by the profit, but not only, and precisely not at the beginning for the companies with the most important impacts as those reported, Google and Facebook. Their pioneers started to fill a void they felt in a field that interested them, it's always how it starts, even for the wheel probably, the printing press, or the radio.
And there is no mystery: if it takes, it is that people appreciate what is provided to them, no offense to flap-joys. For those who suffer the monopoly of taxis (which the State is at the origin) and its exorbitant prices, uberisation is a legitimate solution, so carpool possible only because there are sites like blablacar. It transforms society, nothing more normal.

On the other hand, the real danger that F Roddier emphasizes is the standardization of the world. The fact that they are essentially based on the American model is secondary, I think that the model would be the same regardless of the country as it is capable of presenting attractive innovations. These will be technical and scientific, because if philosophical, political or religious innovations could overcome them, it would have been done for a long time. It is aligned with the most technologically advanced country, and it is not sure that this advance can in practice take forms very different from what we know (even for the food, unfortunately!).
There remains the standardization of the world. The loss of diversity is a danger because humanity finds itself "putting all its eggs in one basket" and we can no longer select from multiple solutions that would be tried.
I do not see today how one could do anything other than to become standardized in a world that communicates everywhere and is nothing more than a "big village". One only needs to be aware of the danger, to beware of a world government, and to wait until technical progress allows us to leave the earth (which should be a goal of humans, and it is a little more exhalting than manage the scarcity on earth).
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 09/12/18, 21:16

Exnihiloest wrote:On the other hand, the real danger that F Roddier emphasizes is the standardization of the world. The fact that they are essentially based on the American model is secondary, I think that the model would be the same regardless of the country as it is capable of presenting attractive innovations.


Yes it's secondary, but the United States combine several factors guaranteeing their hegemonies:
1) A strong economy (not to say violent, pleonasm!) Based on industrial and military power.
2) A freedom of entrepreneurship through a liberal economy, especially through significant means made available in maintaining the elements of the first point.
3) An ethnic mix fostering cultural acceptance across different community groups around the world (something much harder for China).
4) A film industry favoring "memetic spreading".

As the most dissipative model in energy, the USA wins despite their youth (in the eyes of the old world I hear) as a powerful attractors.
Once the machine is launched the other nations have no other possibility than to follow or stay on the low side ... then we must run faster and faster to stay in place (effect of the Red Queen).


Cultural standardization is determined by the increase of energy flows across societies, favoring the phenomenon of coalescence.
Otherwise it is the fragmentationthis one favors the return to a national culture.
The current world situation seems to indicate that we are moving towards the return to the nation states, this is confirmed by the "Brexit", euroscepticism rising, the rise of populism embodied by the elections of Donald Trump de Victor Orban or Jair Bolsonaro.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 09/12/18, 22:26

Exnihiloest, you write:
There is no question of "micro niches" in F Roddier's text, and I see no cause-and-effect relationship between supposed "contradictions" and "tools of interconnectivity".

I do not feel constrained by the vocabulary of F. Roddier in my comments ...
As for the contradictions, they are by no means "supposed": the main one being the work (the others resulting from it), this specific form of activity specific to economism / capitalism which is, by the very fact of the systemic logic, always more destroyed while it constitutes the condition of the existence of the producer / consumer (thus of the market ...).
Therefore, it is in what I call micro niches that take refuge respectively those who do not find decent selling their work force and those who are forced to consume more sparingly (for the same reasons).

That technology transforms society is obvious ...
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 10/12/18, 20:59

Note the release of the new book François Roddier:From thermodynamics to economics

From thermodynamics to economics - The whirlwind of life
10 December 2018GeneralFrançois Roddier

This is the title of my new book that appears this month at "Parole". You can order it now on the publisher's website at the following internet address:

https://www.editions-parole.net/produit ... leconomie/

This book is divided into three parts.

The first part, entitled "Classical thermodynamics", presents a historical account of the equilibrium laws of thermodynamics, as they were established in the nineteenth century by the physicist Sadi Carnot and his successors.

The second part, entitled "Non-equilibrium thermodynamics" presents the concepts developed in the 20th century by physico-chemist Ilya Prigogine and describes their application to neural networks. It shows that the evolution of these is necessarily cyclical.

Finally, the third part entitled "Thermodynamics and economics" proposes an application of these concepts to human societies and their economic development. It shows that evolved living beings have all developed ways to regulate their dissipation of energy and propose to take inspiration from their mechanisms known as agonists to regulate the human economy.

If you liked this book, thank you for giving it to your friends as a holiday gift.

http://www.francois-roddier.fr/
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 17/12/18, 19:49

Heading "special cronyism".

For Christmas make two happy, the recipient and the author: Bertrand Méheust is shunned by the media and his book "The conversion of Guillaume Portail" does not take off in sales .... :(
I have already explained here all the good that I think of this essential book and full of subtleties (several levels of guaranteed reading!) And I will not ponder you again with that, but it's time to offer it and to offer it ... 8)

If only because it would then be possible to envisage a new work concerning the ideas that are debated in this forum, on the memetics and on the passage from exponential ecomomism to techno-sphere: I had a long debate with him recently and he was really very interested.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 08/01/19, 19:30

132 - How companies collapse

Today there is an increasing number of publications on the collapse of human societies. The idea that our so-called "advanced" societies could collapse is becoming more and more important, but opinions on how this might happen are different.

A first concern is the decline in our known oil reserves. The majority of workers can not get to work without taking their personal car and gasoline costs them more and more. One solution would be to develop public transport. Some, few, dare to speak of economic decline, but our governments speak only of free and undistorted competition. In other words, the first that slows down is doubled by others.

A second area of ​​concern is global warming. Each year, international experts meet in the form of a COP (Conference of the Parties) to discuss the measures to be taken. But these are rarely followed by effect. It is also clear that not all countries will be equally affected. Decreasing our use of oil would be the first step, but we have just seen what it is.

In general, people are becoming increasingly aware of the need to preserve their environment. This includes all the animal and plant species that are referred to as biodiversity. Among these species, some have allowed the man to survive, through breeding. It now extends to marine species. Meanwhile, the world's population continues to grow briskly. Until when will we be able to feed (almost) everyone?

One way to understand the collapse of a society is to consider society as a cultural species and to compare its collapse mechanism with that of a genetic species. An example that immediately comes to mind is that of dinosaurs. About 65 million years ago, these represented a set of genetic species capable of dissipating a lot of energy. We know today that the fall of a meteor has profoundly changed the climate, plunging the earth for a year in a dark night. Efficient but not very resilient, the majority of dinosaur species have disappeared, giving way to small mammals.

Like today's human societies, dinosaurs have been affected by a dramatic change in climate and food sources (energy and biodiversity). They disappeared because their genes were not adapted to such a change. It is concluded that, very dissipative of energy as were the dinosaurs, today's advanced societies are doomed to disappear because their culture is not adapted to such a change. In other words, the collapse of civilizations is not a physical phenomenon but a cultural phenomenon. Our current societies are unable to grasp the situation today because their culture does not allow them.

Those who are lucky enough to have a job close to home, but also adopt an appropriate behavior: those who avoid large supermarkets to go to small local merchants (when they still exist), those who buy their food from the local farmers (possibly contribute to an AMAP) or frequent the farmers' markets. Those who order their books from the publisher, rather than from the Amazon, will also get away with it ... By favoring the local economy, they reduce the role of transport, preserve oil, slow global warming and save valuable time for all. to adapt to new situations. Some begin to realize it. A new phenomenon appears: the creation of local currencies: they favor the development of local economies.

There is also an intermediary between a globalized economy and a local economy: a national economy. Local economies thrive when national economies wither away from multinationals, as low vegetation grows in the absence of medium-sized plants. We know that sooner or later, the latter regain strength. The same is true of cultural phenomena. We see it today with the appearance of movements of national scale. We can therefore hope to see the return of a national economy one day.

http://www.francois-roddier.fr/
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 10/01/19, 18:13

When he says:
In other words, the collapse of civilizations is not a physical phenomenon but a cultural phenomenon. Our current societies are unable to grasp the situation today because their culture does not allow them.

... it goes much further than our distinguished "collapsologists" who do not understand this dimension which moreover relates to economism rather than culture, since this last fact is largely dominated by the first (while remaining entangled).
This also meets the opinion of Bertrand Méheust.

I would be more reserved about the end of his analysis where the proposed behavior seems rather illusory in view of the situation envisaged, in particular the local currency and the national withdrawal ...
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 10/01/19, 20:44

Ahmed wrote:I would be more reserved about the end of his analysis where the proposed behavior seems rather illusory in view of the situation envisaged, in particular the local currency and the national withdrawal ...


The national withdrawal is a consequence of the economic contraction, we go from a block to a subset of blocks (K : Arrow: r), which means in view of the current situation the end of the European Union or at least at first are fragmentation.
Faced with a systemic collapse it is very difficult to implement effective measures, in the sense that the leaders as the populations are mentally programmed by the model "croissantisteAny idea of ​​collapse anticipation would validate the notion that the system is vitiated by nature!
I can not see the current tenant of the Elysee make such a confession! As much to ask the Pope to affirm that God does not exist! : Lol:
The present epoch shows to what extent humanity is not a conscious whole, and that it acts for the moment only under the yoke of the determinisms of the anthropotechnical super-organism, it is thus unfortunately logical that we are floundering by the cycles that agitates this one.
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