Company and PhilosophyFrançois Roddier, thermodynamics and society

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sen-no-sen
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 04/06/18, 16:51

125 - When birds do not educate their children anymore.
3 June 2018 François Roddier

The biologist Konrad Lorentz (1903-1989) had noticed that when they become very numerous, the birds do not educate their children anymore.

Birds are among the most advanced animals in creation, soon after mammals. Like the monkeys, they are capable of imitation. This allows them to educate their children. Thus, each family has a particular song that distinguishes it from other families. Biologists have shown that imitation can provoke altruistic behavior, thanks to a selection of so-called cultural kinship.

For example, at the approach of an eagle, a small bird will scream. In doing so he draws the eagle's attention to him and puts his life in danger. This behavior can in no way be of genetic origin because, if it were, it would quickly lead to the disappearance of the gene in question. It is therefore necessarily of the cultural type (it is transmitted by imitation). It allows the safeguarding of the species as a whole.

Altruistic behavior involves social behavior. The latter is particularly visible in migratory birds when, in the autumn, they gather before facing the crossing of a sea. Such behavior is useful for the conservation of the species. If, on the other hand, social behavior puts the species in danger, the so-called natural selection of relatives will tend to eliminate it.

When a bird species becomes very large, it depletes its food resources and endangers its existence. Parent selection will tend to eliminate this behavior. Since the choice of food is a cultural behavior transmitted by education, an uneducated baby will be more likely to adopt a different food than that of his parents. This would explain why, when they are very numerous, the birds do not educate their children anymore.

Would it be the same for the human species? This seems very likely. In one or two generations, a few tractors have replaced hundreds of farm workers. We do not read, we listen to the radio or we watch television. We do not write anymore, we send SMS text messages. We do not count, we take his calculator. Reading, writing, counting have become knowledge of another age. We became completely dependent on the technique.

This has allowed our species to multiply at an unprecedented rate. Unfortunately, it causes the depletion of our fossil resources, the loss of our biodiversity and global warming. Today we only transmit knowledge related to the technique. We forget to learn to think. Our elite no longer seek to understand, but to develop new technologies. To continue to transmit this knowledge does not put our species in danger?

There was a time when going to graduate school guaranteed a job. This is no longer the case today. Long and expensive studies no longer appear as such an attractive cultural food. Some young people go on to higher education, others stop after baccalaureate. In a society that is in danger of collapsing, can we say today those who will do best? If, genetically, we are only one species, culturally we are many. The selection of cultural parentage will decide the future of our children.

History tells us that there was a precedent. Shortly before Jesus Christ, Julius Caesar spoke and wrote fluently Latin and Greek. Three centuries later, Emperor Maximilian 1er wrote Latin badly and did not know Greek. In 518 AD the Byzantine Emperor Justin 1er could neither read nor write. When I was little, I was taught the song: "The good king Dagobert put his pants upside down ...". It is only with Charlemagne that we finally realize the importance of education. Shortly before his death, he tried to learn to read.

Just as the disappearance of an animal population is identified with the disappearance of its genes, so the end of a civilization is identified with the end of its culture. The end of the Roman Empire gives us an illustration. It is time to understand it and change the way we educate our children. Survive those who will have the basic knowledge needed to rebuild a society, at the expense of those with only technical knowledge.

http://www.francois-roddier.fr/
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 04/06/18, 20:28

I note with satisfaction that François Roddier progressively and pertinently deepens the thermodynamic interpretative grid.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Janic » 05/06/18, 07:48

We forget to learn to think.
Or rather the mode, the way of thinking has changed. The contribution of knowledge by the technique, because all our knowledge passes by this one now, directs this way of thinking. Agriculture of the 18 ° and before, was not based on productivism because of the limit represented by animal traction, which was canceled by mechanical traction and chemical fertilizers; health was based on the use of "simple" and other natural means replaced by chemicals galore (and the utopian vaccination with these same chemicals and its chain practice); displacements can not be done only at high speed (TGV, ultra powerful cars) or even slower than a snail by its traffic jams and where all this is considered normal compared to these technical achievements. But the technique also started with the club, with the fire, with the hunt and the clothing. To relearn to think is also to decondition our current way of thinking, but who can really?
Should we even go back without technique? : Shock:
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 05/06/18, 10:03

If the comparison made by F. Roddier is very interesting, I have to issue more than just reservations on the merits. Certainly, in the recent past, studies were more oriented towards non-technical knowledge, what was then called the "humanities". However, we must not delude ourselves about the critical capacity of this orientation, because it was reserved to form an "elite" and served above all as a discriminatory factor, a sign of recognition within the ruling class (hence the connection with jobs), like the disproportionate nails of Chinese scholars ...
This amply demonstrates that these studies were not opposed to the deployment of technology, these are the facts: far from being a brake on this development, these agents contributed powerfully to its advent.
Of course, the acceleration of the technique required to move to a higher stage and to mobilize more forces and, in a much more competitive context of massive access to education, mathematics has ousted ancient Greek as a criterion selective.
I therefore think that the abandonment of classical studies and their potential * critical aspect is not the indirect cause of this technological addiction, on the contrary they constituted a preliminary stage.

* Very potential, since we saw that this criticism went against the class interests of their holders.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 24/08/18, 22:12

The last ticket of F. Roddier Laconically refers to an article published in the double issue of "The Decay" this summer. Just for you : Wink: I immersed myself in his reading. In the company of Olivier Rey and Vincent Cheynet, he takes part in a debate aimed at stating "the serious criticisms that can be issued against the decline".
Without much surprise and using his favorite reading grid, he details several points.
- Individual or group decay within a global entity that systematically benefits (this is the word!) The most dissipative structures may well lead to the rapid elimination of these attempts.

To try to reconcile the necessary decrease and the viability of a decreasing project, he considers a possible scenario, articulated on two aspects.
- From a biological analogy of which I thank you :D he advocates the existence of a dual economy: the first one devoted to the production of commodities and tending naturally to growth and a service-oriented economy which would be intrinsically driven by an opposite trend.
- But the same operation of duplication could be done at the level of money (we remember that he had already approached this idea) by superimposing a national currency and a local; by means of a variable exchange rate, it would be possible to finely regulate the cash flows (= energy flows) and thus avoid too great and too rapid dissipation of energy.
In both cases, an antagonistic voltage appears and it is from this that an equilibrium could result.


As soon as our author speaks economics or politics, I confess to being much less in phase with his conceptions than in other fields (which he renews with happiness). The ideas he presents above are interesting and consistent with his interpretive grid, but I fear that this tool is not the best suited. Still, even admitting the validity of this scenario, nothing suggests its practical possibility. Personally, I distrust any ready-made solution, any system. Platon wanted a city governed by the philosophers, which was probably (AMHA) his worst idea, ours are by the techno-scienti-financiers and we see the result! I therefore more than doubt a city based on this interpretation of thermodynamics (I do not confuse the concept and some conclusions that we draw from it).
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 24/08/18, 23:08

Thank you for this quick summary!
It is indeed very complicated to reconcile economy and respect for life on earth without reaching the scales or disguised business.
To the extent that the economy obeys the principle of maximization it is difficult to envisage a competing model based on degrowth ... remains the inevitable arrival of financial crises that could be if they are not too violent and if they are not not mothers of totalitarianism (that's a lot of if!) engendered an alternative based on balance ... : roll:

the idea of ​​a double currency seems interesting to me with crazy guards, beyond that the establishment of a "test" area (on a departmental scale) that could serve as a model with specific rule setting and a contract with the citizens (example: total coverage of social costs, access to a very high-end education, local organic farming) with counterparts: reduction of the number of vehicles, prohibition of certain products etc.etc.. such a zone could easily attract disgusted inhabitants of the current society and come to repopulate the abandoned countries (Creuse, Lozère etc ...).
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Janic » 25/08/18, 12:34

What is a very upmarket education?
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 25/08/18, 12:47

Janic wrote:What is a very upmarket education?


Quality teaching done by high level teachers with means worthy of the name.
We can not say that national education follows such a path ...
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Janic » 25/08/18, 13:03

Quality teaching done by high level teachers with means worthy of the name.
We can not say that national education follows such a path ...
it does not mean anything because on what criteria will be determined the lessons in question, Catholicism which brought together the best brains in its elitist "educational" systems showed the results and dangers by the conditioning that it generates. But to encourage personal reflection, outside the systems chosen, have never produced anything but revolutions that have always been the major fear of the systems in place precisely. Being taught in a limited and specialized way in some areas only engenders a mass of ignorant people in others and this (with a few rare exceptions) prevents a global analysis outside the imposed system.
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Re: François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 25/08/18, 13:18

It can be assumed and hoped that such teaching is possible and generalizable, however, the remark of Janic is very relevant. What existed on a small scale of non-specialized education remains modest and largely dominates the subjects that can increase the dissipation of energy by categorical efficiency.
I do not believe that quality teaching depends so much on considerable resources; it is rather a question of orientation of the aims of knowledge that matters.
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