Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine

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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sen-no-sen » 21/08/22, 21:16

sicetaitsimple wrote:You know, I don't agree with this analysis of "rushing ahead", as if it were aimless.(...)


According to a naturalistic or even metaphysical(1) approach, Life in the broadest sense (which includes all our activities) cannot be dwelt on teleological considerations.
A "goal", an "objective" or any notion of the same type can only be defined within a sequence or sub-sequence of the story. It therefore never really has a goal but rather the expression of determinisms within a global process.

But I think that the current situation can (should) only strengthen us in this desire to move forward.

The will to move forward confirms that it is a process rather than a real goal or real objective.

1) What could be the goal in infinity?

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I'm going to come to Russia, don't panic, I still have a good memory...


The continuation and quickly! 8)
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sicetaitsimple » 21/08/22, 21:45

Thank you for the attention you paid to my post (especially since we hadn't seen you for a while), but very honestly I didn't understand your answer!
I wanted to talk, beyond the "ecological transitions" behind which everyone can imagine what they want, including revolutions, upset political systems, Mélenchon Prime Minister or Zemmour President, what do I know..., , of "energy transition", much easier to define at least from my point of view, quantifiable, universal, independent in its definition of any political trend and for which everyone, even at the lowest level, can act personally. I remind her:
it is generally replacing fossils with something else, or consuming less of them when they remain in use. This at equivalent "comfort".
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by Ahmed » 21/08/22, 21:49

If we are satisfied with close observation, the ecological transition (a very vague concept, as you very rightly remark) has stated objectives: how can we do otherwise? That doesn't mean they have any real substance, though. Several approaches can be distinguished: strategic, economic and environmental. Curiously, it is this last point that turns out to be the most evanescent: under the objective of locally reducing the production of CO2, mechanisms are put in place that guarantee its expansion in other countries (a standard of living that would be maintained here means that others would do the dirty work, like today)! I do not insist on the economic aspect and its methodology of normative obsolescence, I have already expressed myself at length on this point. Strategically, this project takes on a new dimension with the emergence of a conflict for which it was not configured; for the moment, it seems difficult to me to see to what extent it will be able to influence, and in what direction, especially since it has simply begun...

I thank Sen-no-senfor his intervention. Indeed, the justification of decisions should not be confused with what really motivates them and as for the determinisms, they are content to express their potentiality through various agents (including humans), without it being possible to define a purpose. Rather, it is our inability to act aimlessly and ignorance of what prompts us to do so that leads us to imagine...
Marx, I recall, wrote that "It is men who make history, but not the one they believe."

PS: Sicetaitsimple, I hope that my message written while you published yours answers a little your incomprehension: in fact, it is a question of focal length; but, above, I envisage several.
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sicetaitsimple » 21/08/22, 22:07

Ahmed wrote: Curiously, it is this last point that turns out to be the most evanescent: under the objective of locally reducing the production of CO2, mechanisms are put in place that guarantee its expansion in other countries (a standard of living that would be maintained here means that others would do the dirty work, like today)! [/i].


This is outside the subject that you wish to develop and that I await with great interest, but it does not seem to me that you have spoken of CO2?
I spoke of reducing the consumption of fossil fuels, an objective that seems to me to be a priority for "old Europe". And my opinion does not date from the beginning of the "special military operation".
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by Ahmed » 21/08/22, 22:32

I mention CO2 because it is what officially justifies the abandonment of the use of fossil fuels, at least by European countries...
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sen-no-sen » 21/08/22, 22:38

sicetaitsimple wrote:I remind her:
it is generally replacing fossils with something else, or consuming less of them when they remain in use. This at equivalent "comfort".


Yes, but that's where the scam lies. sustainable development.
It is not very objective to reason in terms of greenhouse gases or fossil energy, this is indeed a subsequent approach, that is to say that it only takes the problem on the way.
Basically it is the production of entropy the problem. In short, if we settle the question of entropy we automatically settle the question of fossil fuels and their emissions, on the other hand if we consider the question from its angle "carbon", which is currently the case, we are going to replace a source of entropy (fossils) by one or more (ENR, nuclear, etc.).(1)
The objective of the transition is therefore to "continue in the worst but otherwise", by making us believe that we could continue to live in the same way, even with increased growth... but with less consequence! It's nonsense...

1) Finally in its most naive version. In fact, renewable energy and nuclear power only serve to compensate for the decline in fossil fuels, not really to replace it. When the time comes, that is to say towards the end of the century, fusion should take over.
In the meantime, we are going to enter a chaotic phase (in every sense of the word) characterized by a significant diversification of supplies of all kinds.
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sicetaitsimple » 21/08/22, 22:49

Ahmed wrote:I mention CO2 because it is what officially justifies the abandonment of the use of fossil fuels, at least by European countries...


It's true, COP this, COP that...CO2 is definitely a problem, but it's global.
But what I think is that this is not the priority objective today for Europe, because it can no longer do much about it.... Increases in CO2 emissions are overwhelmingly happens elsewhere.
The problem is to drastically reduce the consumption of fossil fuels to ensure relative independence in terms of energy. That should be the objective, knowing that the reduction of CO2 emissions will follow.
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by Remundo » 21/08/22, 22:54

Ahmed wrote:I mention CO2 because it is what officially justifies the abandonment of the use of fossil fuels, at least by European countries.

and at least in speech...

you just have to look on the road and remove anything that runs on fossil hydrocarbons... it'll make room!

the same in the sky, in the seas, and the same for construction sites of all kinds, including agricultural ones...
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by sicetaitsimple » 21/08/22, 23:06

sen-no-sen wrote:[
Basically it's the production of entropy that's the problem.


Stop with this entropy bullshit, there is plenty of renewable and non-renewable but abundant energy available on earth to meet the needs of humanity, provided we know how to collect and use them, whatever the entropy generated by this use.
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Re: Non-journalistic approach to the war in Ukraine




by Obamot » 22/08/22, 00:49

Ahmed wrote:My approach may seem parallel to that of poutine up to a certain point, in the sense that it is here the actualizer of a major geostrategic change which disturbs the old conceptions of the balance of power with which the old powers find it difficult to accommodate... However, it himself remains a prisoner of forces that go beyond him and remains globally on a classic approach, simply updated...
I see that when you make an effort to look at things other than through the small end of the telescope, things go better, although the acute poutinitis persists!
Here are the two messages that motivated me:
- that of Guy:
What are the diplomatic conditions for peace? After almost 20 years of various provocations, on both sides, annexations here, manipulations there, provocations, violence, increasingly huge lies and mutual aggression, the situation is desperate but is in my eyes only the oh so visible phenomenon of a global geopolitical reorganization which is in its infancy.

- that of Dede2002, speaking too infrequently, probably because he only speaks when he has something to say? Unusual attitude among the other members... : roll:
In my opinion, the war is not where you think it is. It generates a tremendous opportunity to increase abstract value dear to our system, not only by the rising profits of the oil companies, but also by the arms factories which have jobs, and the prospect of the reconstruction of all that is broken, which will motivate many credits!


It remains a tad classic as an analysis, but we are already in much more substantial... 8)

There are indeed several focal points for analyzing the situation: from very close we are forced to adopt the point of view of the camp that we choose to observe, with a little more distance we can try to discern the issues present, with an ad hoc focal point, it is possible to see the context in which all this takes place. This last method is more satisfactory, but remains insufficient because all the belligerents or their supporters, although in disagreement, are nevertheless in the same context of competition (in the sense that they have the same criteria of judgment on this context, only the interests diverge). From this last point of view it is also possible to produce a coherent analysis, but where the rub is that it is never possible (and this is true at all levels) to judge a system with the criteria or references which are its own. It is this bias that makes it possible to maintain irremovable divergent opinions: everyone is "right" within the system chosen by them.
It is therefore necessary to choose a sufficiently "solid" exteriority to get out of this bad situation; For a long time, God was the reference, but we know that this is not operative and has only postponed the original dissensions in another sphere: moving a problem is not solving it... Classical philosophy invoked " Sirius' point of view", simple wishful thinking* without further details...

* In two syllables, otherwise it's a post! : Mrgreen:

work in progress ...
I would like to give some modest points that I have been able to observe, I take it not as the first truth but as a trend. Being only moderately able to push reasoning as far as you, Sen-No-Sen and even Remundo... : Oops: But at least I'm trying by breaking eggs : Lol:

Putin is aware of the limitations he faces as a leader, having experienced them before.
What is “revolutionary” in his approach is what he himself declares: “each action leads to an interaction, and it is better to beware of intervening too much to end up in a situation worse than the previous state” (or something)... Pdt Mitterand had said something similar (but it was a warning, here we are already in the application of a method).

The Russians are therefore trying to do "almost nothing" to avoid backlash - hence the flamboyant blow of the BRICS which (I repeat myself) was only the highlighting of a de facto situation, already existing in more than one title — so it has “almost nothing done” nor either “virtually nothing produced” as an immediate effect, to obtain a major awareness at the planetary level, towards future developments which will only be slow and progressive (at this moment accelerated by the war ...) ...

So yes, he is a kind of updater: very well seen. But no, in accordance with his narrative, “he does not seek to make a major change," but rather "prevent one from occurring in a way that is too impactful” (NWO whose goal would be a redistribution of the cards with sleight of hand to dilute the debt or whatever) or at least avoid continuing to suffer the shelving of most of the humanity of the major decisions that concern them and in which they could not take part until then...

On the other hand, and this is very clear — and this proves that I am not “pro” or “anti” — Putin eventually makes a mistake by seeking to send Westerners back to their responsibilities (and currently, it seems that each time 'they don't understand, he's tightening the screw...) because even if he thinks so, it can hardly have any therapeutic virtue, since for 30 years we locked ourselves in our logic and it was we who gave the lessons!

Conversely, this places climbing in Ukraine as a real paradox in the face of its narrative. And then I really want to believe that he was forced into it and that the Russians no longer had (and could no longer have) confidence in the West or any other choice, it is perfectly plausible (and proved again this year in April, when we learned that France itself had violated the Minsk Accords in 2014, by already supplying arms to Ukraine! Yes, that's crazy...!

On the other hand, although of a subtle nature, one should not imagine Putin making long reflections and specious discussions, he presides over a great country and he is rather confronted with the dictatorship of the real (especially these times).

I would say at the moment that the European leaders are completely left behind in the face of international law, and I would almost say that there is only one captain left and that if I were to go to the height of irony, I would almost say that this are the Russians”who manage the western situation by proxy”(*) to prevent us from driving ourselves beyond the point of no return (which we cross every day...) ... conditions that we have created and recreate every day, so much are we / were so confident and arrogant...

(*) The Russians for six months, have (in particular) continued to:
— honor their gas contracts, despite the mad hostility of Westerners...
— honor their financial obligations, despite the mad initiative to confiscate Russian assets in Western banks.
— turning a blind eye to NATO's Western military presence in Ukraine and the deliveries of heavy weapons with assistance!
.
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