#USTE: All immortal? (Transhumanism and philosophy)

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#USTE: All immortal? (Transhumanism and philosophy)




by Christophe » 05/02/15, 09:49

Last night on France2, part of the show #UTSE = Un Soir à la Tour Eiffel was devoted to immortality (coming soon?) Of the man: http://www.france2.fr/emissions/un-soir ... /117034575

The classic questions of unequal access to technology have been mentioned ... some have argued that this would be like mobile telephony: very expensive at first but very quickly accessible to the general public ... (the cost of a sequencing of DNA was divided by 3 000 000 in 10 years according to a speaker)

After the questions are perhaps more philosophical and societal (when and how will we choose to die?) How to control the reproduction of humanity? Who will be entitled to it and who will not be entitled to it? price ...)? On the road to gerontocracy?

Personally it is the question of personal enrichment that worries me the most: our society is already more and more unequal: by living more, the rich will stay rich longer ...

In short the whole society would be to review ... and reorganize!

Complete the following topics:
Science-and-Technology / jellyfish-a-immortal-yet-more-strong-as-the-tardigrade-t12494.html
Health-pollution-prevention / the-mystery-of-old-how live-plus-old t10885.html
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by Ahmed » 05/02/15, 19:10

The question of the perpetuation of inequalities, which strike you, O Christophe, is not really dependent on this (very) hypothetical immortality, since economic, relational and cultural inequalities are transmitted by inheritance.

It is not this aspect that seems to me the most problematic, but rather a point which constitutes a blind spot of criticism of modernity, never addressed (except perhaps in a certain way by René Girardit is that any positive progress of the techniques finds its counterpart by a more powerful negative progress.
This last point can be explained trivially: it is always simpler to destroy than to build, to kill than to save.
It follows from this fact that all that would make it possible to increase in great proportions the duration of life, would allow in even greater ones to destroy it.

In reality, all this fallacious discourse rests on several absurd postulates:
The first is an illusion of our psyche which is unable to perceive the transitory nature of the period in which we are immersed and which leads it to infer a linear extension of the trend.
This submission to the spirit of the time leads to the refusal of death, because it is totally contrary to it and opposes a bitter denial that only a powerful denial can keep out: the infinite accumulation of value has, by definition, no sense if it is subject to limitation.
In a certain sense, since existence has become inconsistent, devoid of purpose and ideal, there remains only existence and the hope that this emptiness will find, at one time or another, its solution: eternity then only responds to the need for infinite delay ...
There is yet another psychic illusion that drives us to seek both personal immortality and collective suicide, the former being consciously conscious and the other not; yet both are intimately linked.

* Since this noun is neutral.
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by bidouille23 » 06/02/15, 01:09

In other words, you will have beautiful bodies immortal when we refer to the popular saying that tell us:

when we are C .. it's for life ....

it may be long ....


As many questions arise before and realize that, as for much of the technology, it is basically useless ... instead of stuck a patch on the evil without looking for the cause ....


But self destruction actually forces the solution is not bad ...
And why be sweaty with pesticides all this all huh;) ... Yes, indeed, a beautiful door open to negative progress (due less to the time of the current world temple of consumption) as you say Ahmed ...

This is the millennial sales department, the vampires fangs out since a long time before we even got wind of all this .... There are porte-feuilles that only ask this fill .. .

Serious when I see stuff like that it makes me flip, when you see the other twisted North Korea, once eternal what happens! ?????
: Cry:

Everything again depends on the observer's point of view and who we listen to;) ... and why ....
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by Ahmed » 06/02/15, 09:02

The logic at work in this fantasy is that of an ever greater exoneration of the constraints applying to the human.
It should be remembered that the successes recorded in this area only apply to a small proportion of men and that they only work at the expense of the rest of humanity.

Even within these privileged people who have less to fear the vagaries of life and who have technical / administrative remedies to remedy them, the number of people who have the greatest difficulty in supporting a life (however "normal duration" "!) without addictive crutches (neuroleptics, legal or illegal drugs, TV, video games, Michel Drucker, Stéphane Bern ...) is extraordinarily high given the" progress "claimed by our enriched societies.
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by sen-no-sen » 06/02/15, 09:16

The transhumanist ideology is above all a symptom of technologismin that it corresponds to a contamination of biology by technology.
Indeed the evolutionary capacities of the human body are not fast enough to allow adaptation of this one to the sudden modification brought by the industrial development.
Historically have found the same phenomenon internationally with communism.
Communism was not at all an anti-capitalism as some idealist would have it to believe, but a kind of "software" allowing the conversion of the very undeveloped nations towards industrialization, letting capitalism spread in the countries having already reached a level. certain threshold of development.
Of course, once the Communist countries are sufficiently industrialized, the communist ideology is replaced by capitalism ...

Transhumanism as an ideology tends to convert the old biological system to a new hybrid life system, which will lead to posthumanism or the biological life disappears in favor of the non-biological life, by means of intelligent automata or algorithmic entity.
Most futurists think that if we push this hyper-technology too far, the future humanity could be replaced by a cloud consisting of thinking entities moving in gigantic supercomputers colonizing the universe! ...

The big question, to which transhumanists can not answer, concerns the existence in the human sense of the term.
Why exist if one escapes biological determinism?
Indeed, most of the human behaviors that drive us to live are related to the satisfaction of simple things: eating, drinking, sleeping, etc. If such a process is no longer necessary, why exist, and for what purpose? ?
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by Ahmed » 06/02/15, 19:06

On communism (or "real" socialism), it is in fact, as you say, a catch-up capitalism, a sort of "upgrade", very far from the ideal of some, just as much as of the repulsion of those who condemned him.
I see less in transhumanism a desire for catching up than a continuity of progressive transformation of the whole of nature and therefore of human nature.
Men, summoned at first to adapt to the machine, see themselves more and more denied in their human dimension by the evolution of this one: the abdication can not, logically, be partial.
Regarding your last paragraph, the efforts of men to get out of their precarious condition and which was to lead to their development (which requires a minimum of comfort) focused on the means of action, in doing so, they quickly forgot the original purpose . This inversion implies that the prolongation of life becomes an end in itself, since the goal is no longer within life.
If this fantasy were to happen, there is no doubt that suicide would put an end to this contradiction: what is the use of an infinite time without content?

Another way of evoking these things, as you point out, would be to go further in this perverse logic and to radically suppress the living, in which case the contradiction would be evacuated at the same time as the subject!
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by Ahmed » 07/02/15, 10:39

Another way of looking at this enterprise, it would be better to say this fantasy, would be (and it is not in contradiction with what has been discussed above, rather a synthesis) a projection of what founds our society: a pure quantity devoid of any quality.

To the eternity of duration would then correspond the absolute of emptiness ... the paroxysmal realization of the motor of modernity.

Beyond the constraints that were, if not the reality, at least the individual ideal, is replaced by a collective overcoming that sign the death of the subject.
Because, as has seen very well Sen-no-senthe subject can not subsist (if indeed this term can be used!) than by renouncing itself, by objectifying itself to blend into a world from which the human has excluded the human.
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by sen-no-sen » 07/02/15, 11:39

It is possible, however, that post-humanism works ...
Indeed, for an admittedly exclusive but growing number of scientists *, the true entity of this world would not be the human, a poor animal of some 150 000 years, but the memes.

Indeed, and it is an undeniable fact, it is the Memes who "created" men.
Our species is indeed a mix of nature (genetic) and culture (memetic), without which we would never have evolved from the primate stage to that of hominids ...
From this point of view, we would be only memetic vectors, allowing through our genetic inheritance to perfect those ci ...
Technological development makes it possible, through its ultra-accelerated improvement, to provide Memes a niche much more effective than that offered by the frail human bodies.

The fundamental question is therefore to ask the following question: Who are we really?
As indicated P.Guillemantwithout a deep research on the nature of consciousness we are condemned to transhumanism!


Ahmed wrote:

Another way of looking at this enterprise, it would be better to say this fantasy, would be (and it is not in contradiction with what has been discussed above, rather a synthesis) a projection of what founds our society: a pure quantity devoid of any quality.


Transhumanists are for the most part "believing materialists"in the sense that they do not believe in God, nor in the hereafter, but that they desire deeply.
And as one is never as well served as by oneself, the paradise, God and consort, will then be made of any parts, to satisfy this ideal.
There is also a transhumanist church, proof that it is always the same Memes who are at work in the world, yet another form of messianism **!





*Richard Dawkins et Susan Blackmore to recite nobody else but them.
** Sociologically this can be explained by the fact that most transhumanists are of Jewish origin and are strongly culturally impregnated by Judaism messianism ....
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by Ahmed » 07/02/15, 13:52

If the orientation towards transhumanism is a well-established fact, the question of the possibility of this option remains unresolved.
How could this perspective be compatible with the valorization of abstract value?
It seems to me that a change in the model of society is an indispensable precondition, because the contradictions of the current paradigm can not be overcome in the short time that remains ...

Many systems of domination existed before that of the abstract value, but I do not see a new form capable of answering the specifications of what the transhumanist mutation implies, except to eliminate, directly or not, the major part of humanity.
If this were unfortunately the case, the Hitler project would appear as a futuristic vision that will ultimately fail only by its excessive anticipation ...
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by Ahmed » 07/02/15, 13:52

If the orientation towards transhumanism is a well-established fact, the question of the possibility of this option remains unresolved.
How could this perspective be compatible with the valorization of abstract value?
It seems to me that a change in the model of society is an indispensable precondition, because the contradictions of the current paradigm can not be overcome in the short time that remains ...

Many systems of domination existed before that of the abstract value, but I can not see a new form capable of answering the specifications of what the transhumanist mutation implies, except to eliminate, directly or not, the major part of humanity.
If this were unfortunately the case, the Hitler project would appear as a futuristic vision that will ultimately fail only by its excessive anticipation ...
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