Placebo and Nocebo effects explained by Dr. Lemoine

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Placebo and Nocebo effects explained by Dr. Lemoine




by Christophe » 05/09/12, 11:45

To complete the subject https://www.econologie.com/forums/cerveau-nb ... 11261.html , here's a little interview about the placebo and nocebo effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBFSTAdzNtw

The illusion in medicine bears the pretty name of placebo. The idea is that trust of a product by a doctor and his patient can heal or heal. In the antipodes, there is a less known phenomenon: the nocebo. The nocebo effect is a patient who becomes really sick when he thinks he is.
How does our mind affect our physical state? Dr. Patrick Lemoine, psychiatrist and director of clinical teaching at Claude Bernard University in Lyon answers questions.
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by Obamot » 05/09/12, 12:18

All this is really very topical ...

Not to say at the tip!

Indeed, we currently see the placebo / nocébo under an angle never explored until then, since this effect would have more than psychological virtues, but even "caregivers"!

The latest discoveries in this area «explodeSo all that was believed until then ...! Namely that the placebo effect would be limited to the psychological impact of perlimpinpin powder.

Since then, researchers in the medical world, have realized the unsuspected effects of "placebo / béébo", and that go even further than the theory ...! Reality exceeds fiction!

Indeed, not content to act on the psyche and boost the immune system. In particular, the placebo effect revealed (or confirmed) that humans have their own internal chemical plant (which is much more efficient than all chemical plants in the world combined) and is able to produce their own medicines to treat targeted way individually developed conditions!

Thus, not only the placebo effect, gives a positive signal on the willingness of the patient to get out of it, but it also triggers through this psycho-biochemical combination, the production of "caring products" ...

See this link, if it still works:
http://www.rts.ch/emissions/36-9/348140 ... corps.html

If necessary, use this kind of link to access it:
http://hidemyass.com/
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by Janic » 05/09/12, 12:44

http://leplacebo.unblog.fr/les-probleme ... et-nocebo/

placebo / nocebo effects are observed facts but poorly analyzed most of the time. Indeed, a placebo effect is attributed to products that are supposed to be inactive (since the very high dilutions, the question arises) compared to active products and then mix the suggestive dimension of the prescriber as much as of the user.
On the other hand, but this is another aspect, passive or active suggestion plays an important role in the behavior of an individual. Thus an anxious mother next to a sick child will be felt by the latter and he will react according to this "atmosphere". But with a level limited to the level of understanding of the child. A baby at birth is not sensitive to a reassuring or disturbing speech of a therapist. Likewise for an animal, whatever some say.
This is noticeable for hypnosis where some are very sensitive and others completely refractory.
In a way, this brings us back to religious faith with pro and anti "miracles", namely what escapes the rationality of our current science.
Or again at EMI!
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by Obamot » 05/09/12, 13:10

What is the habit of always wanting to separate the psychic aspect from the affective aspect ...!? (No, moreover for hypnosis it is not a criterion, it also depends on the confidence that the subject has with the hypnotist ...)

And Henri Laborit's studies on rats? What do we do at this stage?

A rat too, has "A limited level of understanding". Nevertheless, we observe the same phenomena with animals in captivity as with men ...

It is not so much a question of knowing if the psychological aspect (or psycho-emotional) influences or not (since one knows that yes ... with the placebo effect in the first and second degree, with pathologies related to the stress , and studies carried out by Laborit on rats, etc.) but of to understand that the body is capable of manufacturing itself the bio-medicines it needs to heal and cure itself ...

Although obviously, this is not always the case!

This is what makes us understand these new discoveries on the placebo! It is true that after that, one can hardly minimize the influence of the psycho-emotional environment (whatever it is) and the environment at all, on the fate of the "patients". Even if everything has its limits!

I still like this little sentence there: : Cheesy:

sen-no-sen wrote:Henri Laborit said:"Man is like the rat, but what he has besides he does not use".
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by sen-no-sen » 05/09/12, 13:39

Obamot wrote:
Indeed, not content to act on the psyche and boost the immune system. In particular, the placebo effect revealed (or confirmed) that humans have their own internal chemical plant (which is much more efficient than all chemical plants in the world combined) and is able to produce their own medicines to treat targeted way individually developed conditions!


As the Doctor said Sevran Schreiber: "We should no longer talk about a simple placebo effect, but rather a placebo treatment".
Efficiency is no longer demonstrated.

Studies have also been done between suggestion (hypnosis type) and placebo effect.
It was thought for a long time that his two methods were derived from the same mechanisms, but apparently it is not at all the case, the portions of the brains involved in this phenomenon are not the same.
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by Obamot » 05/09/12, 13:42

Excellent!

I did not know this conceptual breakthrough around all the placebo aspect by Dr. Sevran Schreiber.

Not better.
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by sen-no-sen » 05/09/12, 13:54

Obamot wrote:Excellent!

I did not know about Dr. Sevran Schreiber's breakthrough.

Not better.


Alas he has left us (2011).
Nevertheless, many (and some of the most eminent) doctors admit the efficacy of the psyche on the disease, and not just a psychological aspect, but a physically measurable action.
In India, it's been more than 3000 years that his facts are known!

The placebo effect is still a phenomenon whose mechanisms are rather obscure, but when it comes to "secret healing", science does not know what to say ...
Yet a growing number of doctors see the effectiveness of prayer * on various ailments: bleeding, burning, skin disease etc ... with almost total effectiveness!

* This is a very specific prayer formula.
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by Janic » 05/09/12, 13:59

Obamot
As usual is it a difference of understanding of form or background?
What is the habit of always wanting to separate the psychic aspect from the affective aspect ...!? (No, moreover for hypnosis it is not a criterion, it also depends on the confidence that the subject has with the hypnotist ...)

I do not separate, I relativize!
And Henri Laborit's studies on rats? What do we do at this stage?

All experiments on caged animals, already under significant stress, have only indicative value and almost never correspond to reality. (Like microbial or viral cultures outside an organism). A rat in its natural environment will probably never react like those of the labs and they are also selected according to criteria corresponding also to the desired results so everything is distorted.
A rat too, has a "limited level of understanding". Nevertheless, we observe the same phenomena with animals in captivity as with men ...

But we are not in captivity (though!)
It is not so much a question of knowing if the psychological aspect (or psycho-emotional) influences or not (since one knows that yes ... with the placebo effect in the first and second degree, with pathologies related to the stress , and the studies carried out by Laborit on rats, etc ...) but to understand that the body is able to manufacture itself the bio-drugs that it needs to heal and cure itself ...

He is not only able to heal and heal himself, but he is even able to not be sick if the psychological and physical conditions are met, but as you say:
Although obviously, this is not always the case!

and even more and more rarely: stress, pollution, food, etc ... of "modern" societies that are spreading over companies "under development".
This is what makes us understand these new discoveries on the placebo! It is true that after that, one can hardly minimize the influence of the psycho-emotional environment (whatever it is) and the environment at all, on the fate of the "patients". Even if everything has its limits!

As you say !
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by Janic » 05/09/12, 14:04

As Doctor Sevran Schreiber said: "We must no longer speak of a simple placebo effect, but rather of a placebo treatment".
Efficiency is no longer demonstrated.
but it didn't work for him. The study of his book shows that he has been constantly torn (and he clearly recognizes this) between his faith in "natural" treatments and his "scientific" submission to nucleochemical treatments. Destroying on one side what he was building on the other. So stress, fear, confidence, doubt, etc ...
Even if its unusual survival is sobering (those who have a classic view of Western medicine).
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by sen-no-sen » 05/09/12, 14:22

Janic wrote:All experiments on caged animals, already under significant stress, have only indicative value and almost never correspond to reality. (Like microbial or viral cultures outside an organism). A rat in its natural environment will probably never react like those of the labs and they are also selected according to criteria corresponding also to the desired results so everything is distorted.


Research conducted by H.laborit are therefore without appeal, and clearly verified on the man:
In situation of inhibition of the action, an animal will contract in the short term pathologies of the behaviors as well as physiological disorders (ex: tachychardie, insomnia etc ...).
In the long term his disorders can evolve towards more severe pathologies: cancer, hormonal disorders, to see the death.

But we are not in captivity (though!)


Of course we are in captivity!
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