The evolution of biological species and chance ...

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GuyGadeboisTheBack
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 23/08/21, 17:34

(I drive a Clio so I don't have a disproportionate ego ... Well, it is noted, one more bullshit to put to the credit of Bozo ...)
Me, I'm not a racist, I even have a Sidney Bechet record ... : roll:
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by ABC2019 » 23/08/21, 17:38

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:(I drive a Clio so I don't have a disproportionate ego ... Well, it is noted, one more bullshit to put to the credit of Bozo ...)
Me, I'm not a racist, I even have a Sidney Bechet record ... : roll:



address yourself to the chief : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: Be careful, in general, he doesn't really like being criticized!

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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Obamot » 23/08/21, 18:12

The colle-ã-bo has gone down
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by sen-no-sen » 23/08/21, 18:13

Wasn't the subject evolution? Dacias maybe? : Lol:
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Christophe » 19/01/22, 12:34

Econology, 11 years ahead of Science! : Mrgreen:

https://trustmyscience.com/evolution-ne ... le-hasard/

What if evolution wasn't all about chance?

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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Exnihiloest » 19/01/22, 17:03

 
A highly touted interpretation of a study that shows none of this, but that

"epigenomic and physical characteristics explain more than 90% of the variance in the genome-wide mutation bias pattern around genes. The observed mutation frequencies around the genes in turn accurately predict the genetic polymorphism patterns in natural Arabidopsis accessions (r = 0,96). Allele frequency analyzes confirm that mutation bias is the main force behind patterns of sequence evolution around genes in natural accessions."

In other words, the favored mutations are precoded. What would it come from? Intelligent design that will not fail to seize the creationists?
Of course not. It comes... from the coincidences of evolution, which favors the genetic material that leads to favorable mutations, since that which leads to unfavorable ones ends up being eliminated. They took the concept up a notch without understanding that it didn't change anything (or they understood it very well but knew that it would create a buzz!).
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Janic » 19/01/22, 20:01

debilex
In other words, the favored mutations are precoded. What would it come from? Intelligent design that will not fail to seize the creationists?
Of course not. It's coming... coincidences of evolution, which favors the genetic material that leads to favorable mutations, since that which leads to unfavorable ones ends up being eliminated. They took the concept up a notch without understanding that it didn't change anything (or they understood it very well but knew that it would create a buzz!).

hold on stupid who is looking elsewhere than on the covid to tell his usual bullshit. What is chance? Which, according to a popular expression, DOES things so well...like nature which does the same...and even god in religions. Could it be the smoky trinity?
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Christophe » 01/02/22, 12:32

Hey, evolution is a philosophical question. :) : Mrgreen:



https://www.philomag.com/articles/levol ... n-le-pense

Is evolution less random than we think?

Octave Larmagnac-Matheron published on January 31, 2022 3 min

Are genetic mutations, which set evolution in motion, totally random, as we generally learn at school? Not so sure, according to a study recently published in the journal Nature by a team from the Max-Planck Institute (Germany), which studied the evolutionary processes of a self-fertile plant species, the lady's cress (Arabidopsis thaliana). . All his genes would not, in any case, be as likely to mutate. To achieve this astonishing result, the team had to neutralize in the laboratory the natural selection factor which makes invisible, by eliminating them, a whole part of the spontaneous mutations. A questioning of Darwin? Rather, an update.

Chance and necessity: upstream of any process of natural selection, these are the two fundamental principles of life, to use the title of a decisive work by Jacques Monod published in 1970, which gave its most iconic formulation to this logic in two heads:

Necessity on the one hand “The fundamental biological invariant is DNA. […] There is no conceivable mechanism by which any instruction or information could be transferred to DNA. The whole system, therefore, is utterly, intensely conservative, closed in on itself, and utterly incapable of learning anything from the outside world. »

Chance on the other hand
“However, physics teaches us that no microscopic entity can fail to undergo disturbances of a quantum order, the accumulation of which, within a macroscopic system, will alter its structure, gradually but inevitably. […] We say that these alterations are accidental, that they take place at random. And since they constitute the only possible source of modifications of the genetic text, the sole repository, in turn, of the hereditary structures of the organism, it necessarily follows that chance alone is at the source of all novelty, of all creation. in the biosphere. Pure chance, chance alone, absolute but blind freedom, at the very root of the prodigious edifice of evolution. »

This pattern of evolution prevailed for decades. But is it, strictly speaking, Darwinian? The place of chance in the explanation of “variations” is much more ambiguous than is often believed in Darwin. As he confided in The Origin of Species (1859): “I have hitherto spoken of the variations – so common and so diverse in organized beings reduced to the state of domesticity, and, to a degree less, in those found in the wild – as if they were due to chance. This is, without a doubt, a very incorrect expression; perhaps, however, it has an advantage in that it serves to demonstrate our absolute ignorance of the causes of each particular variation. Darwin then puts forward a hypothesis: the influence of the “conditions of existence to which each species has been subjected for several generations”.

Research from the Max-Planck Institute opens up another avenue. They indeed show that the genes do not all have an equal probability of mutation. Genes responsible for essential life functions tend to mutate much more rarely. In contrast, genes that enable adaptation to environmental changes tend to be much more plastic (as Darwin foresaw to some extent). Return of a form of finalism? Not for Gray Monroe, signatory of the study: "This suggests that the mutation bias we describe is itself the product of natural selection, that there is a form of circularity in the evolutionary process", which would act retroactively to keep individuals both more stable in their essential structure, and more adaptable at the margin. A sort of living self-organization of chance, which of course does not eliminate the hazard… but gradually weights it with a differentiated probability.
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by Janic » 01/02/22, 19:57

Christophe "01/02/22, 13:32
Hey, evolution is a philosophical question.

Absolutely ! the discourse on evolution is primarily philosophical rather than scientific.
We must place this belief in its historical framework of opposition to the dominant religion and its pseudo-scientific discourse which no longer holds water today with the explosion of knowledge in biology, as this article underlines a little.
As Etienne Klein, philosopher of science, points out that hypotheses on this subject cannot decide between immanence and transcendence.
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Re: The evolution of biological species and chance ...




by phil59 » 01/02/22, 20:19

I didn't read the topic, when I saw more than 230 pages...
up to 10, I do, even if I don't post, if I'm interested ....

I think "just one evolution", limits others to future, and "forms in a mold" only a few other possibilities, and not an infinity...

In short, an almost straight line, with some variations, but not in all possible directions.

It is only a conviction, without argument....
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