Science and TechnologyEtienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

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thibr
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Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by thibr » 11/11/20, 08:30



Engineers frankly we don't hear them much. They are very numerous, much more numerous than the economists. They write a lot, read a lot. They write reports for their companies, but they speak very little in the media ....

come on Christophe, and the others : Wink:
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Christophe » 11/11/20, 15:06

Good subject, it reminds me of an old subject who spoke precisely of the very low representation of technical professions in the legislative !!
I'll try to find him.

Well already I learned a word: technolâtre! (it already does not appear in the corrector of my browser! :D )

Some cold remarks:

- There are still some engineers who open it: Jancovici, Musk ...
society-and-philosophy / climate-co2-covid-energies-economy-and-growth-by-jm-jancovici-le-choc-covid-t16580.html

- Etienne Klein does not visit econology or not enough : Cheesy:
Because here there are some who open it ... even a little too much : roll: : Lol:

- The site https://www.nosdeputes.fr/ is very well done, in addition to an archive of everything that happens in the assembly, it indicates a CV and the initial training of each deputy.

I don't know if we can filter MPs by profession ... but this kind of statistics must be found elsewhere.

If it is noted "without profession" it is not a joke it is not that deputy is not a profession (oops), it is simply that he does not have an initial diploma ...

Examples: https://www.nosdeputes.fr/jean-luc-warsmann

- I am an engineer, vote for me! : Cheesy:
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by thibr » 15/11/20, 09:47

but we hear too much those who know nothing about it : Mrgreen:


To speak confidently about things that one does not know is ultracrepidarianism. Explanations with the philosopher and physicist Étienne Klein.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Janic » 15/11/20, 10:00

but we hear too much those who know nothing about it
those who know a subject do not have to speak about it precisely, between connoisseurs of this ultracrepidarianism characteristic of the ignorant and who want to remain so! :?
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Exnihiloest » 15/11/20, 12:05

thibr wrote:but we hear too much those who know nothing about it : Mrgreen:


To speak confidently about things that one does not know is ultracrepidarianism. Explanations with the philosopher and physicist Étienne Klein.

Étienne Klein is absolutely right. Ultracrepidarianism, a precious word to know because it sums up a general disease today, which is rotting society. Why ? Because from the moment when it is no longer competence and rational arguments that are used to act, especially in politics, but beliefs, digressions from facts or knowledge, fabrications generated by popularization misunderstood scientist, impressions and affects completely disconnected from technical realities, we enter into arbitrariness.
As outstanding areas where we speak in ignorance and arbitrariness, Étienne Klein cites GMOs, nuclear power and of course COVID. When we enter into arbitrariness, we enter into dictatorship, and we can clearly see it with COVID. Driving around in the car, going in forests or on little-frequented seaside is not a health risk for anyone. But it is currently prohibited in France. Forbidden why? Because in these places, we cannot be controlled. By not limiting oneself to actions based on technical and scientific knowledge, we have entered into a dictatorship.

Because there is a consequence of ultracrepidarianism that Étienne Klein did not speak about. When in society it has become common or even normal for everyone to talk about what he does not know, to denounce facts which have yet good reasons, to "cry out his anger" or to shout about anything and everything what, and to demand measures going in the direction of its incompetent subjectivity, the smartest people who want to manipulate you knowingly mimic this posture, foremost among them, the politicians. It is in fact known in psychology that one of the best means to communicate, in fact to manipulate, is mimicry. Thus the incompetent stuck in their Dunning-Kruger see their own posture in political decision-makers playing on affects in the name of a health whose technical elements are selected with partiality and those going beyond health are ignored. They recognize themselves in it and accept without flinching their demands in the name of health, such as the need for an Ausweis to leave their home.

Unfortunately, it is not their fault that we do not hear the engineers. They express themselves well, but technically and scientifically. And if they popularize, it is almost worse than evil because all incompetent people think they have mastered the subject.
To hear engineers, and techniques in general, you yourself have to make very great efforts in training, analyzing, spending a lot of time studying subjects, and this is not within the reach of everyone. . Normally that's what decision-makers and their advisers are supposed to do: find where the skill is, solicit it from those who have it, and base actions on it.
We are far from it today: the scientific and technical incompetence of politicians and decision-makers is such that they often do not even know on whom to rely, and their perversion is such that even if they have well targeted the competence , they will manipulate it to better establish their exercise of power. The infantilization and control of the citizen today through the management of COVID is typical of this state of affairs.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Christophe » 15/11/20, 12:48

thibr wrote:To speak confidently about things that one does not know is ultracrepidarianism. Explanations with the philosopher and physicist Étienne Klein.


ultracrepidarianism ... waaaw! Another new word in my brain!

The word of the year 2020?



Aren't the worst ultracrepidarians today journalists? How many have lectured scientists since the onset of the covid crisis? In particular with respect to Raoult!

Then we can learn a subject that we did not know. But some learn better than others.

If I look at Christophe from a year ago, it was a nozzle in biology and health crisis.

But I have learned and I have never opened my mouth without a learned scientific basis because the many publications I have read since and the exchanges we have made on this forum trained me well!

For example, 1 year ago, I never imagined being able to draw a viral inhibition curve and yet ... health-pollution-prevention / virus-covid19-the-thermal-disinfectant-mask-t16392.html
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Christophe » 16/11/20, 17:12

Another "inter" containment video from Klein:

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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Exnihiloest » 16/11/20, 18:22

Excellent intervention by Klein, judicious distinction between science and research.
We have scientific uncertainty for drugs, but also for the climate because the climate is not an established science but a beginner, research is permanent.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Janic » 17/11/20, 12:50

It is rare, even exceptional, that I agree with excmachin, but here I completely agree with everything he said, down to the comma!

Étienne Klein is absolutely right. Ultracrepidarianism, a precious word to know because it sums up a general disease today, which is rotting society. Why ? Because from the moment when it is no longer competence and rational arguments that are used to act, especially in politics, but beliefs, digressions from facts or knowledge, fabrications generated by popularization misunderstood scientist, impressions and affects completely disconnected from technical realities, we enter into arbitrariness (....)

except obviously concerning the individuals whom it believes to have to target.
It is like someone looking at a landscape from the top of a mountain and comparing it to the same landscape seen by another person on the plain.
It is indisputably the same, and yet they do not resemble each other, enough to doubt that it is indeed the same. only going down the mountain and going up the plain allows one to acquire the conviction that it is indeed the same thing.
This example being a comparison between H and A obviously!
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

by Exnihiloest » 17/11/20, 18:32

Janic wrote:It is rare, even exceptional, that I agree with excmachin, but here I completely agree with everything he said, down to the comma!

Well me too, I am completely in phase with what jaunice writes, as long as it remains short (I deleted the superfluous) and does not express its own rantings but takes up the thoughts of the best.
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