Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

General scientific debates. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energies or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub-sectors) forums).
pedrodelavega
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3089
Registration: 09/03/13, 21:02
x 655

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by pedrodelavega » 25/11/20, 07:08

Christophe wrote:There are more than 2% of patients since it is 20% unless Klein talks about 2% at the hospital


This is where S Trotta lacks judgment. Or he does it knowingly to deceive his world.
0 x

ABC2019
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12927
Registration: 29/12/19, 11:58
x 1007

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 25/11/20, 07:13

pedrodelavega wrote:
Christophe wrote:There are more than 2% of patients since it is 20% unless Klein talks about 2% at the hospital


This is where S Trotta lacks judgment. Or he does it knowingly to deceive his world.


and in addition we do not test everyone, just those who think they have a reason to be tested. Etienne Klein took a mathematical example to show that the calculation of Bayesian probabilities may be non-intuitive, but it does not apply to reality.

Apart from that, even in its calculation, we can still say that the test is useful for something, as long as it is done, it is better to confine 50 people including 49 by mistake than to confine 1000 people including 999 by mistake!
0 x
To pass for an idiot in the eyes of a fool is a gourmet pleasure. (Georges COURTELINE)

Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 16864
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 2297

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 25/11/20, 07:23

Apart from that, even in its calculation, we can still say that the test is useful for something, as long as it is done, it is better to confine 50 people including 49 by mistake than to confine 1000 people including 999 by mistake!
except on the mathematical level, it does not make much difference on the level of an entire nation if the method used is not good!
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
ABC2019
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12927
Registration: 29/12/19, 11:58
x 1007

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 25/11/20, 07:37

Janic wrote:
Apart from that, even in its calculation, we can still say that the test is useful for something, as long as it is done, it is better to confine 50 people including 49 by mistake than to confine 1000 people including 999 by mistake!
except on the mathematical level, it does not make much difference on the level of an entire nation if the method used is not good!

I'm just saying that even with 2% false positives, the method would still be justified because it still leads not to confine everyone, even if some would be confined by mistake, it's still better than to confine everyone . And those confined by mistake may be saved from future contamination!
0 x
To pass for an idiot in the eyes of a fool is a gourmet pleasure. (Georges COURTELINE)

Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 16864
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 2297

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 25/11/20, 07:46

I'm just saying that even with 2% false positives, the method would still be justified because it still leads not to confine everyone, even if some would be confined by mistake, it's still better than to confine everyone . And those confined by mistake may be saved from future contamination!
This is where the shoe pinches! No containment, as practiced, can prevent a virus free to spread by multiple means, the air of which is quite simply like wanting to stop a tsunami with an umbrella .
So in the absence of anything else (it reminds once again strangely of the measures against AIDS) ° a government, whatever it is, must do what it can to avoid panic movements much more serious than a virus any. by pretending they know what to do. And their vaccines will do the same flop as everything else since this virus will die out on its own like all those that came before it.
So again, it's tackling the effects (like AIDS) without ever tackling the causes. Where is the vaccine for this AIDS?
Last edited by Janic the 25 / 11 / 20, 07: 50, 1 edited once.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré

ABC2019
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12927
Registration: 29/12/19, 11:58
x 1007

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 25/11/20, 07:49

Janic wrote:
I'm just saying that even with 2% false positives, the method would still be justified because it still leads not to confine everyone, even if some would be confined by mistake, it's still better than to confine everyone . And those confined by mistake may be saved from future contamination!
This is where the shoe pinches! No containment, as practiced, can prevent a virus free to spread by multiple means, the air of which is quite simply like wanting to stop a tsunami with an umbrella .

well if the confinements had an almost immediate effect on stopping the epidemic. That they are difficult to support socially is another problem, but you cannot deny their effectiveness.

On the other hand a priori there is zero data showing any efficacy of H. against SARS-Cov2, to my knowledge. It would be curious if it was the only virus against which it has a strictly zero effectiveness, you who know the subject well, do you know others against which it would be ineffective?
0 x
To pass for an idiot in the eyes of a fool is a gourmet pleasure. (Georges COURTELINE)

Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 16864
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 2297

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 25/11/20, 08:01

well if the confinements had an almost immediate effect on stopping the epidemic. That they are difficult to support socially is another problem, but you cannot deny their effectiveness.
This does not question their punctual efficiency! If you go out with an umbrella you get less wet than without. It is therefore only minimal one-off protection but without any in-depth effect since all the fragile contaminants a little earlier or a little later will have to pass through it to obtain sufficient immunity or pass through it, it is the law of natural selection. So the current measures only extend the inevitable in length, they do not stop it, and will not stop it! Even with their pseudo vaccine, none have ever worked in history and this from Jenner. It's just intended to make the frightened, anxious population believe, that in addition, that this miraculous product will put an end to their fears and anxieties. But if they believe in it like all placebos: why not!
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
ABC2019
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12927
Registration: 29/12/19, 11:58
x 1007

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 25/11/20, 08:07

Janic wrote:
well if the confinements had an almost immediate effect on stopping the epidemic. That they are difficult to support socially is another problem, but you cannot deny their effectiveness.
This does not question their punctual efficiency! If you go out with an umbrella you get less wet than without. It is therefore only minimal one-off protection but without any in-depth effect since all the fragile contaminants a little earlier or a little later will have to pass through it to obtain sufficient immunity or pass through it, it is the law of natural selection. So the current measures only extend the inevitable in length, they do not stop it, and will not stop it! Even with their pseudo vaccine, none have ever worked in history and this from Jenner. It's just intended to make the frightened, anxious population believe, that in addition, that this miraculous product will put an end to their fears and anxieties. But if they believe in it like all placebos: why not!

you just forget in your reasoning that the saturation of hospital services could cause many additional deaths from lack of care, both from covid and other untreated pathologies.

On vaccines, since you yourself have admitted that you are neither a doctor nor a specialist in statistics, I do not see why we should believe your statements.
0 x
To pass for an idiot in the eyes of a fool is a gourmet pleasure. (Georges COURTELINE)

Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 71672
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 7517

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Christophe » 25/11/20, 11:11

pedrodelavega wrote:
Christophe wrote:There are more than 2% of patients since it is 20% unless Klein talks about 2% at the hospital


This is where S Trotta lacks judgment. Or he does it knowingly to deceive his world.


Is it the author of the statements or the reporter most at fault?

Klein lost 10 Karma points with this deceptive speech ...
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum - Support the forum doing Useful shopping
pedrodelavega
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3089
Registration: 09/03/13, 21:02
x 655

Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by pedrodelavega » 25/11/20, 11:27

Christophe wrote:
pedrodelavega wrote:
Christophe wrote:There are more than 2% of patients since it is 20% unless Klein talks about 2% at the hospital


This is where S Trotta lacks judgment. Or he does it knowingly to deceive his world.


Is it the author of the statements or the reporter most at fault?

Klein lost 10 Karma points with this deceptive speech ...

What is misleading is the interpretation of the extract that is made of it.
0 x


Back to "Science and Technology"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 15 guests