Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 20/11/20, 17:54

Janic wrote:
nobody forces you to tell bullshit either and yet you do not deprive yourself of it.
I live in line with what I'm saying, you think what you want, I don't care.
So this confirms that you are saying bullshit, but we realized it for a long time!

no, it just confirms that you only know how to spout insults in bursts, and that I totally don't care about your insults!
Likewise, I do not deprive myself of this comfort of our societies, but as usual you have not even read it.
if I read correctly, that is what I said. On the other hand, you also spend your time vituperating against the scientific method which has brought you all this comfort, not me.
You take your fantasies, once again, for reality! I am a scientist by my training and my profession, not in your abstract dreams and I have largely contributed to this so-called industrial comfort. It didn't make me proud of that though!

proud or not proud, it's your personal matter, but obviously I see that it does not prevent you from sleeping to enjoy it quietly.

Ah, the verse of the violin to make you cry in the cottages! And you?
I make no one cry, (…) even if of course I am ready to contribute to its improvement.
What is improvement for you, is it making the situation a little worse by the same means that degrade it?

no, improvement means making better, not worse. Learn French.
I already experienced it during the war of 39/45: and you?
the bombs on the face, the empty plates, no shoes but galoshes, few clothes to patch up to the rope, etc ... and you?

no, but then at least I have the decency not to make silly comparisons.
Having said that for 80 years you are apparently doing well, do you think you would have had as many chances to live so old without modern comforts?
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Exnihiloest » 20/11/20, 18:14

bob sleigh wrote:...
I translate, 2008 no INSA student is able to cover the sup / spé program (INSA school with integrated prep).
...

This is nothing new. In the 70s it was already like that. The INSA even received the best of the IUT. No one had the sup / special level. As their name suggests, they are "applied science" institutes (civil, electrical, computer engineering ...), not "grandes écoles". At the time in the preparation in 5 years, the first two years gave the equivalent of a DEUG.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by bob sled » 20/11/20, 18:37

They were category B schools located below the grandes écoles.

Your reasoning is flawed by the fact that you assume that the preparatory and DEUG program in those years was fundamentally different, which is wrong.
As for the best of the IUT, it is more a myth than a reality. The INSA students worked as much as those of preparatory work (ie a lot) during this integrated preparation.

Deug's program in the 80s is 95% that of preparatory school, it is more of a difference in terms of programs than level. And there was between 12 p.m. and 14 p.m. twice a week, a session for those who wanted to present schools.

As proof of this, I want the integration of certain students at Centrale Paris, ESTACA or Mines, among others, as well as the DEUG exams taken from the entrance exam to Polytechnique.

I would even say that with only 2 exams in the year compared to the continuous control of the prepas, the DEUG was not a gift (between 50 and 75% failures).

Today there is no longer any higher mathematics taught, in fact there are no longer engineers.
Last edited by bob sled the 20 / 11 / 20, 18: 47, 4 edited once.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 20/11/20, 18:41

You take your fantasies, once again, for reality! I am a scientist by my training and my profession, not in your abstract dreams and I have largely contributed to this so-called industrial comfort. It didn't make me proud of that though!
proud or not proud, it's your personal matter, but obviously I see that it does not prevent you from sleeping to enjoy it quietly.
Absolutely ! I brought my stone to the building and too bad if it finally falls on my face
Ah, the verse of the violin to make you cry in the cottages! And you?
I make no one cry, (…) even if of course I am ready to contribute to its improvement.
For you, what is the improvement, it is to aggravate a little more the situation by the same means which degrade it?
no, improvement means making better, not worse. Learn French.
The notion of improvement in this area is entirely subjective. We razed the hedges to improve agricultural production: conclusion disappearance of insectivores that had to be replaced by insecticides, we improved yields by spreading artificial fertilizers and that finally exhausted the soils, we improved plant varieties such as animals with strong antibiotics and the organisms were weakened (for example this COVID), all this "thanks" to YOUR science!
I already experienced it during the 39/45 war: and you?
the bombs on the face, the empty plates, no shoes but galoshes, few clothes to patch up to the rope, etc ... and you?
no, but then at least I have the decency not to make silly comparisons.
What's silly is talking, once again about what you don't know
Having said that for 80 years you are apparently doing well, do you think you would have had as many chances to live so old without modern comforts?
Absolutely! The elderly have survived the centuries when they adopted proper hygiene and lifestyle. Take a dictionary of proper names and you will see that this is the case as far back as we can go!
Do not take the speeches on the increase in the average life, without verifying its veracity over centuries. you who claim to know you in statistics.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 20/11/20, 19:01

Janic wrote:The notion of improvement in this area is entirely subjective. We razed the hedges to improve agricultural production: conclusion disappearance of insectivores that had to be replaced by insecticides, we improved yields by spreading artificial fertilizers and that finally exhausted the soils, we improved plant varieties such as animals with strong antibiotics and the organisms were weakened (for example this COVID), all this "thanks" to YOUR science!

oh yes, there is an age when we understand that Santa Claus does not exist, that mum and dad are not all powerful, and that there are no roses without thorns. It's called becoming an adult. Some never make it.


Absolutely! The elderly have survived the centuries when they adopted proper hygiene and lifestyle. Take a dictionary of proper names and you will see that this is the case as far back as we can go!
Do not take the speeches on the increase in the average life, without verifying its veracity over centuries. you who claim to know you in statistics.

give me a known name that has not experienced several early deaths of parents, partner or companion, or children then.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 20/11/20, 19:42

oh yes, there is an age when we understand that Santa Claus does not exist,
No! it is when the child realizes that adults are liars and first of all his parents
and that there are no roses without thorns.
It's called becoming an adult. Some never make it.
and do you feel concerned?
so give me a known name who has not experienced several early deaths of parents, partner or companion, or child
as currently with wars, famines, murders, accidents, etc ... recent statistical curves take this into account. For the rest, it's on the cusp! So it does not give information on the lifespan in general, but that of the ages reached by the elderly :oyes!
Last edited by Janic the 20 / 11 / 20, 19: 55, 2 edited once.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by ABC2019 » 20/11/20, 19:48

Janic wrote:
oh yes, there is an age when we understand that Santa Claus does not exist,
q
No! it is when the child realizes that adults are liars and first of all his parents

ooh we sense the trauma there ... that could explain a lot of things!
Above all, you have to understand (and accept) that parents are humans like any other. I think I have understood this for a long time.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 20/11/20, 20:07

ooh we sense the trauma there ... that could explain a lot of things!
all children are traumatized, but over time they forget about it. The only thing they don't forget is that lying is good!
Above all, you have to understand (and accept) that parents are humans like any other. I think I have understood this for a long time.
except that small children do not do psycho analysis, but live in the feeling!
It is estimated that these children stop believing in the NP's lie around 7/8 years old, with already experience, they know that adults are liars, except concerning their parents! On the other hand these same parents, who lie, forbid their children to do it, like smokers, drinkers, drug addicts, forbid them to imitate them! On the educational level it is lost in advance!
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by thibr » 22/11/20, 17:20


Who are you Étienne Klein? (ABC Thinking)
Born in Paris in 1958 into a large Catholic family, Étienne Klein knew very early on that he owed his salvation to studies. At 20, he entered the École Centrale. He teaches in prison and obtains a summer internship at CERN, which was the chance of his life. He reads with enthusiasm and is passionate about quantum physics. He published Conversation avec le Sphinx, his first book, in 1991 and defended a thesis at the age of 38 on “The unity of physics”. And he began with the group "Chronos", a reflection on time, which will continue. Talented popularizer, he has since devoted himself to writing, teaching, radio on France Culture.

Interview shot on October 22, 2020.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by izentrop » 23/11/20, 09:14

bob sleigh wrote:Dangerous message from Etienne Klein who seems to ignore (perhaps drawing) that we no longer produce engineers worthy of the name since the early 2000s.
I think he is talking about those who have a few years of work.

When we are at the heart of economic activity, our vision of things changes, we learn it every day and we realize that techno, learned to have pain in the hand by dint of scratching paper, is big part obsolete. With the death of Cloclo, standards have yet to evolve in electricity.

I was only a small technician, but I saw technical evolutions pass which each time, left people behind.

I have seen many trades that require technique disappear. I wonder what place still remains for engineers ...

Today, with the Paris agreements, everything is to be reconsidered, their place has become more essential than ever. Bring back activities that started out in emerging countries, make future activities as low as possible, with the challenge of reversing the trend.
the task is enormous, room for young people ...
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