To death death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)

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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by sen-no-sen » 09/09/21, 21:12

Exnihiloest wrote:This is not what we see. The biggest Christians are in the United States, where techno is flourishing and economism widely used.
Among the evangelists, money has been declared perfectly compatible with religion. The question is therefore not that of a change of religion.


It is precisely because of the power of economism that we can see today in the world a rise in religious fanaticism (all religions are affected!).
Lastly, the said religions can completely lean on economism (e.g. in the USA, Emirates, Saudi Arabia), but this does not prevent its latter from being put in the background (the rise of the Evangelicalism in South America, for example, makes it possible to unravel Catholicism (and its Christian-Marxist developments), in order to thus promote North American economic interference).

Certainly progress is opposed to all classical religions. But it has nothing to do with a new religion: no sacred texts, no immutable rites, no supernatural beings, except twisted arguments


It would be reductive to consider a religion as a belief based on the existence of one or more divinities. Certain religions are also completely atheistic (Taoism, Buddhism).
Religion come from latin religare(to link). The principle of a religion is to link, connect a network of operators ("believers") around a central concept which will define their praxis.
The central concept can very well be a divinity like anything else, except for this little game, the economy is more powerful than any god, because it is likely to transcend ethnic, geographical or social.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Exnihiloest » 09/09/21, 22:53

sen-no-sen wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:This is not what we see. The biggest Christians are in the United States, where techno is flourishing and economism widely used.
Among the evangelists, money has been declared perfectly compatible with religion. The question is therefore not that of a change of religion.


It is precisely because of the power of economism that we can see today in the world a rise in religious fanaticism (all religions are affected!) ....

This is wrong (called "rapist's argument": "she provoked me").
On the other hand, I hardly see terrorist attacks coming from Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Very bad idea to put everyone in the same bag, but it is to justify targeting "economism", so anything would be good.

The problem with fanaticism is essentially Islam, the religion of violence, hatred and submission. This is nothing new. It is written in the Koran. The Bataclan terrorists only put it into practice:
"So when you meet the infidels, kill them to the point of causing great carnage"
Quran, Sura 47-Verse 4.
"Do not take any ally among them, until they emigrate in the path of Allah. But if they turn their backs, then grab them and kill them wherever you are ..."
Sura 4 - Verse 91.

Ditto for the status of women:
Men are superior to women because of the qualities by which God has raised them above them [...]. You
reprimand those whose disobedience you have to fear; you will relegate them to separate beds, you will beat them;
Sura 4-38.


No need to invoke economism to understand that what is taught in mosques ends up marking the minds of the most idiots or the weakest.

It would be reductive to consider a religion as a belief based on the existence of one or more deities. Some religions are also completely atheistic (Taoism, Buddhism).

You break open doors. I didn't, since I took 3 symptoms: sacred texts, immutable rites, supernatural beings.

For Taoism, no god, but quest for immortality and full of superstitions.
For Buddhism, it is less clear:
"The notions of god and divinity in Buddhism are particular: although Buddhism is often perceived as a religion without a creator god, this notion being absent from most forms of Buddhism, the veneration and worship of the historical Buddha Siddhartha Gautama as bhagavat play an important role in Theravāda as well as in Mahāyāna, who see in this character an awakened being with a triple body". (Wikipedia)

I grant you that Buddhism or Taoism or even Hinduism are a lesser evil in matters of religion, compared to monotheistic religions. But the 4 biggest religions, by far, all have gods. And all religions remain imbued with superstitions, sacred writings even when they are not of divine origin, rites, belief in immortality in one way or another.

To quote minority religions, more or less distant from divinities, and without speaking of the 2 other criteria that I had indicated, you are far from invalidating what I said: these contexts of magical thought are made of recipes, they do not evolve, unlike the dynamics of liberal societies.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by sen-no-sen » 09/09/21, 23:32

Exnihiloest wrote:This is wrong (called "rapist's argument": "she provoked me").
On the other hand, I hardly see terrorist attacks coming from Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Very bad idea to put everyone in the same bag, but it is to justify targeting "economism", so anything would be good.


You are misinformed on the subject.


For Taoism, no god, but quest for immortality and full of superstitions.


The quest for immortality let's see ...
https://reporterre.net/Les-transhumanistes-revent-d-immortalite
“We are in a society of worship performance "

Emerging in the 1980s, the transhumanist movement is a philosophy advocating the use of technology to improve the human condition. and come to the end of its finitude. Thus, according to the Transhumanist Declaration adopted by the World Transhumanist Association in 2002, “transhumanists advocate the moral right of those who wish to use technology to increase their physical, mental or reproductive capacities and to be more in control. their own life. We wish to flourish by transcending our current biological limits ”. The “frequently asked questions” of the association's website completes this definition, specifying that the movement encourages the development and dissemination of “techniques aimed at eliminating aging”. For Daniela Cerqui, anthropologist at the University of Lausanne, who studies the links between societies and technologies, “humans are the last patient to be conquered”, in “ societies that no longer accept finitude and limits ».


To quote minority religions, more or less distant from divinities, and without speaking of the 2 other criteria that I had indicated, you are far from invalidating what I said: these contexts of magical thought are made of recipes, they do not evolve, unlike the dynamics of liberal societies.


I see magical thinking every day in the announcements of central banks and their QE injections ...

You break open doors. I didn't, since I took 3 symptoms: sacred texts, immutable rites, supernatural beings.

I send you the compliment ... : Lol:

It is easy to demonstrate that human beings have always made uses since the appearance of civilization of sacred texts (eg the Torah ... but also the declaration universal human rights, republican values, secularism etc ...) of rites (the ritual is an integral part of human behavior so that amounts to saying nothing!) and of supernatural beings or their contemporary substitutes (, matter in communists or abstract value in economism).
Only the terminologies change, the fundamental structure of thought remains the same whatever the times.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Janic » 10/09/21, 10:21

Nothing to do with a religion
. On the contrary, the meaning of religion is putting it into practice, not blabbing about the sex of angels. Whatever this implementation as for a site, the work does not build itself, it takes labor for its implementation, whether in a narrowed vision of religions or what replaces it. . Even if we stick to the Latin meaning of religare, connect, establish links!
All religions sclerotic society and lock people into an unchanging and definitive way of thinking, ideas and behavior.
There we immediately feel the theologian of a very high level ... kindergarten!
On the contrary, liberal societies have upset ideas, from abortion to marriage for all. They are not set in stone. The differences between the 19th and the 20th century are huge, while in the Christian Middle Ages, between the 11th and the 12th century it was always the same.
And the guy who thinks he's impartial, comparing two cultures 8 centuries apart. It's like comparing the automobile with the handcart; the latter having no pollution impact like the first and he is proud of that! the bozo of the band of funny!
In "liberal" there is "freedom". It is because of the exercise of this freedom that the system is dynamic.
This is what annoys its detractors, because to bring down this system and force it, their only means will never be the strength of a dictatorship. That said, it can happen, and it can even happen democratically (Hitler came to power acclaimed).
Of course, this system is dynamic to send us into the wall. Instead of braking, he accelerates, believing that it will not boom! And the big draw who on one side sings the praises of freedom '(does he really know the meaning?) While supporting his opposite
To come back to the subject of this thread, if the past salvation required a preliminary death (a fairly easy condition to fulfill!), The new one does not adapt with difficulty, since an accumulative process (wanting to be) infinite is placed in contradiction. with the limited duration of existence. This is also true more generally with respect to all the limits that would oppose it ...
and low-level re-theologian. The pure and hard fantasy of a deranged mind! When we take the real balance sheet, it does not go in the direction you claim, but rather in its opposite. Who says that already in the middle of the year, your company model has already eaten up all its available capital and you say; we don't give a fuck since we have transhumanist eternity in front of us
This contradiction can be lifted, let's make existence unlimited. Certainly it is not tomorrow the day before, but it will be done, since almost no one is satisfied to know that they are limited in time. Where, when and how, the distant future will tell.
You will be well advanced since you will be dead like everyone else today! Life is here, now, not in a hypothetical future fantasized about by stupid comics about a retarded teenager.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Ahmed » 10/09/21, 11:04

Uh ... Janic, you messed up in this quote: "To come back to the subject of this thread, if the past salvation required a preliminary death (a fairly easy condition to fulfill!), The new one does not adapt with difficulty, since an accumulative process (wanting to be) infinite is placed in contradiction. with the limited duration of existence. This is also true more generally with regard to all the limits which would oppose it ... " which in fact is mine and is obviously situated in a completely different context than the other passages you have cited ...

Sen-no-sen, you write very rightly:
It is precisely because of the power of economism that we can see today in the world a rise in religious fanaticism.

It is a reactionary manifestation, after all quite classic, which folds back on the traditional religious phenomenon, but which is thus resolutely modern in essence, contrary to what is often denounced by a laziness of thought as a "return to obscurantism and barbarism ". Thus, many of the" Islamist "terrorists who raged in France were freshly converted and even some individuals took action by claiming by mimicry of an Islam which was totally foreign to them , just because it seemed to justify their desperate act more clearly ...
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Janic » 10/09/21, 11:56

exn ... archi null!
On the other hand, I hardly see terrorist attacks coming from Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Very bad idea to put everyone in the same bag, but it is to justify targeting "economism", so anything would be good.

The problem with fanaticism is essentially Islam, the religion of violence, hatred and submission. This is nothing new. It is written in the Koran. The Bataclan terrorists only put it into practice:
"So when you meet the infidels, kill them to the point of causing great carnage"
Quran, Sura 47-Verse 4.
"Do not take any ally among them, until they emigrate in the path of Allah. But if they turn their backs, then grab them and kill them wherever you are ..."
Sura 4 - Verse 91.
Ditto for the status of women:
Men are superior to women because of the qualities by which God has raised them above them [...]. You will reprimand those whose disobedience you will have to fear; you will relegate them to separate beds, you will beat them;
Sura 4-38.

No need to invoke economism to understand that what is taught in mosques ends up marking the minds of the most idiots or the weakest.
Typical example of an ignoramus who wants to play the operetta theologians by drawing a few passages, out of context, to justify his anti-Semitism. And who has never studied these works that he quotes incorrectly!
3 small pieces extracted from suras in the middle of thousands of passages; Who has never listened to what is said in mosques, among pacifist Muslims and scholars of all kinds who comment on their own writings. Where is the fanatic in this case? Likewise when you sing TA Marseillaise "let unclean blood water our furrows" you then consider that the French are thirsty for blood! It is "essentially atheism, the religion of violence, hatred and submission." whereas for a very, very short time, women have been able to vote (long after Islamist Turkey) have the right to have a checkbook, to have personal property, etc ... and to be naked! so who is one of the laggards in history?

Women "voters": a late conquest in France ...
This right to vote for women arrived late in France.(1944) New Zealand women have been voting since 1893 and australians since 1902 After the great war, the suffragette movements and the participation of women in the "war effort" were crowned with the granting of the right to vote for women in several countries, such as Great Britain,
Germany, the Netherlands, the United States, then India, Turkey or Brazil.

France: July 1 1965, the law allows married women to dispose of their money without the husband's consent. Millions of wives open a bank account.

turkey: December 5 1934, the right to vote is granted to them for national elections; they voted for the first time in the legislative elections of February 8, 1935, at the end of which 18 deputies were elected (4,6% of parliamentarians).
Last edited by Janic the 10 / 09 / 21, 12: 15, 2 edited once.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 10/09/21, 12:12

Not to mention that the Sufis are absolutely not aggressive, proselytes or violent ...
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Exnihiloest » 11/09/21, 01:01

sen-no-sen wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:This is wrong (called "rapist's argument": "she provoked me").
On the other hand, I hardly see terrorist attacks coming from Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Very bad idea to put everyone in the same bag, but it is to justify targeting "economism", so anything would be good.


You are misinformed on the subject.



Summarize your point, STP. I will not see the videos that are thrown at me without personal reflections or summary.

...
It is easy to demonstrate that human beings have always made uses since the appearance of civilization of sacred texts (eg the Torah ... but also the declaration universal human rights, republican values, secularism etc ...) of rites (the ritual is an integral part of human behavior so that amounts to saying nothing!) and of supernatural beings or their contemporary substitutes (, matter in communists or abstract value in economism).
Only the terminologies change, the fundamental structure of thought remains the same whatever the times.


I don't see what you want to prove other than that everything is equal to anything and everything. So according to you, everything is religion? In this case, why do we distinguish creationism from evolutionism, and only teach the second in France? I don't see what there is to discuss about your tote.
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by Janic » 11/09/21, 10:38

exn ... ullard
I don't see what you want to prove other than that everything is equal to anything and everything. So according to you, everything is religion? In this case, why do we distinguish creationism from evolutionism, and only teach the second in France? I don't see what there is to discuss about your tote.
typical example of a pseudo science compared to a pseudoreligion: where is the difference?
Evolutionism is taught in "atheist" schools as previously "creationism" was taught in religious schools. It all depends on who and why one has priority over the other, but in both cases it is only a matter of beliefs, much more cultural than "religious" : Shock:
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Re: Death to death, immortality soon? (Laurent Alexandre)




by sen-no-sen » 11/09/21, 16:34

Exnihiloest wrote:Summarize your point, STP. I will not see the videos that are thrown at me without personal reflections or summary.


To summarize: globalization induces abrupt cultural transformations (change of lifestyle, customs etc ...) which creates a deleterious environment for the thought systems in place. Its systems then enter into resistance, they "contract" and promote the rise of fanaticism ... if you listen to the video, and even better if you document yourself on the subject, you will see that the problem is global and not just about Islam.

So according to you, everything is religion? In this case, why do we distinguish creationism from evolutionism, and only teach the second in France?


No, because everything is not conducive to the unification of social groups (for example: the keys to my lock) ... however beyond a certain threshold, things that are not in appearance can become, I am thinking of football in South America for example.
Creationism is not a religion strictly speaking, no more than evolutionism, it is here a mode of interpretation based on a cultural model, in the first case on a literal (and reductive reading) ) of the Old Testament, in the second on an interpretation consistent with physics and biology.
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