Frédéric Lenoir: spirituality in the world

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Frédéric Lenoir: spirituality in the world




by eclectron » 05/06/21, 08:08

Interview of Frédéric Lenoir about his documentary series on Arte about spirituality around the world.
What the Westerner has lost: the connection with nature
Should it speak to eco-viscerals? : Wink:
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Janic » 05/06/21, 09:19

Lenoir is a good guy! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Ahmed » 05/06/21, 09:30

Eclectron, happy to read you again! :D
You write:
What the Westerner has lost: the link with nature.

It is an observation, but this simple statement is already revealing, since the language (at least ours!) Endorses a duality which does not exist, but which was deliberately constructed. More precisely, it is the human belonging to nature that has been deconstructed (Cf P. Descola). A split essential to the exploitation / destruction of nature, an entity that has become external and therefore indifferent (except, precisely, in an anthropized form which denies it). Presented like this, however, the reason for this exploitation arises, and, except to indulge in a flat justification by "needs" which would essentialize Man without regard for the diversity of his trajectories, we must recognize that it was the necessary condition for an increased dissipation (in immense proportions!) of energy.
This episode turns out to be a (very!) Distant echo of the energy accumulation that took place 360 ​​M years ago (and this for 60 M years; the Carboniferous) and the dissipation bubble strongly deferred from what remains of it corresponds to the few current centuries. The human species was the only one able to implement this liberating process and evolution did the rest, blindly, which obviously took time. It was necessary, in particular for the appearance of new concepts, such as that of "freedom" which exonerated old limitations and freed from direct personal domination in order to subject to new links, abstract, but totally compatible with this process. Which is perfectly embodied with what was called capitalism, a transitional phase and currently in decline ...
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Janic » 05/06/21, 10:04

(and this for 60 M years;
(Sic) : Cheesy:
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Exnihiloest » 05/06/21, 19:19

eclectron wrote:What the Westerner has lost: the link with nature ...

... for the highly superior link with culture.
This is what sets our species apart from other animal species.

They want us to return to religion with Nature as the new God, the other no longer being successful except among the arrears of Muslims.
Who will win in this religious war? Islamism or environmentalism?
Suspense!
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Janic » 05/06/21, 19:51

exnul
eclectron wrote: What the westerner has lost: the connection with nature ...
... for the highly superior link with culture.
This is what sets our species apart from other animal species.
Ouarf! When you have the intestines crying out to empty, to shit in a way, the culture does not differentiate any human from other animal species and when you breathe, like them, you are glad that this nature gives you the oxygen you need. ; not your culture.
They want us to return to religion with Nature as the new God,
Absurd reasoning as with all false materialist rationalists, nature is nothing more than a functioning product. according to mandatory laws and it is not a stupid culture, other god, that will change things.
the other [*] no longer being successful except among the arrears of the Moslem.
This is outright anti-Semist racism!
Who will win in this religious war? Islamism or environmentalism?
Would transhumanism do better?
Suspense!
[*] half of the world population all the same including only 1.6 billion Muslims!
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by eclectron » 06/06/21, 08:42

Ahmed wrote:Eclectron, happy to read you again! :D

Thanks me too : Wink:


Ahmed wrote:You write:
What the Westerner has lost: the link with nature.

It is an observation, but this simple statement is already revealing, since the language (at least ours!) Endorses a duality which does not exist, but which was deliberately constructed.

I don't approach it that way.
Already I am not sure of "deliberately", because once the finger in the improvement of his living conditions, difficult not to continue.
In this the process would be natural, let us say rather, understandable.
The problem is that we have set up a perverse system (which does not suffer contradiction, which does not suffer shutdown: growth, capitalist crescentism)

Without wanting to denigrate your cultural contribution, I stick to the only observation.
Because knowing the why and how does not necessarily solve the problem. Sometimes yes, sometimes no and then I don't think that solves the problem.
Like when I cut myself with a saw I know why it hurts, I know how it happened, I know all about it but it still hurts so much.
Knowing does not take away the pain, knowing does not correct the problem.
It is a fairly common knowledge mistake to think almighty. This is also one of the causes of the current situation.

In this case we have cut ourselves too far from nature. This single fact, this single observation, if it is really made, should generate its own action.
Sam is enough! : Lol:
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by eclectron » 06/06/21, 08:53

Exnihiloest wrote:
eclectron wrote:What the Westerner has lost: the link with nature ...

... for the highly superior link with culture.
This is what sets our species apart from other animal species.

Not well understood.

Exnihiloest wrote:They want us to return to religion with Nature as the new God, the other no longer being successful

'We' don't want to impose anything on you.
'We' expose you and you see it as an imposition.
The reality of what is visibly exposed annoys you. I can understand but that would be entering into a 'psy' aspect that you will not like ...
I don't think you are ready to see and accept certain things about yourself: too much stiffness, too much "schlague" conditioning.
You have become a cold and insensitive being who rejects with violence what you are not allowed inside.
worry we are all the same to varying degrees.

Sunday Mass (secular):
Before loving nature and others, you must already love yourself
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Ahmed » 06/06/21, 13:12

Eclectron, you write:
Already, I am not sure of the "deliberately", because once the finger in the improvement of his living conditions, it is difficult not to continue.

Deliberately, because it was one of the ideological conditions that justified the process. The improvement in living conditions is only an observation relating to a recent condition; in reality, the starting point of the industrial revolution (which was industrial in name only) turned out to constitute a considerable degradation of these same conditions for the great majority of the population and the continuation of the process cannot be sustained. 'explain by a massive adhesion to the "project". Likewise, the current reversal should make things less "comfortable", in the usual sense of the term.
Further:
In this the process would be natural, let us say rather, understandable.

Natural would be fair if one relates it to the conditions favorable to a greater energy dissipation, and understandable according to this criterion.
Again:
knowing does not correct the problem.

Of course! This is insufficient, but nevertheless a necessary prerequisite. To act against it, we must first recognize the point of inflection and its insidious translation into language which is anything but innocent.
As for the sacred, it only moves towards the all-powerful market and the so-called "materialism" is only a mediocre spiritualization of the commodity.
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Re: Frédéric Lenoir




by Exnihiloest » 06/06/21, 19:15

eclectron wrote:...
You have become a cold and insensitive being who rejects with violence what you are not allowed inside.
...

You have become a stupid, callous being who violently rejects anything that passes above you.

Not complicated, I too can play stupid. The difference is that at eclectron it is not a compositional role.
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