Even after a "Great remedy", there is no guarantee of becoming humble.
Mebon, I admit that the tests were not done in a partitioned room ...
Opinion on a renovation of a house for years 60
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- Grand Econologue
- posts: 1155
- Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
- Location: Britain BZH powaaa
- x 2
Hello,
After a period of silence, the origin of the few humidity problems encountered on my north wall was analyzed. The problems encountered were due to condensation due to furniture too close to the north wall and a minimum extraction speed of my hygro A CMV too low. Consequently, the 2 incriminated pieces of furniture changed places and I increased the constant minimal extraction rate which is from now on of 30 m3 / h with increased rates in kitchen and bathroom if the noted humidity is high. Following precise measurements, no capillary rise was detected and I do not have to embark on large-scale work concerning the installation of peripheral drains.
After careful consideration and reconsideration of the total surface of my north wall to be insulated which is 42 m², my decision is to use 5 cm of an insulation called DIATHONIE EVOLUTION on the whole of the north wall. This insulation is composed of cork, clay, diatomaceous powders and polypropylene fibers with a lambda = 0.045 W / m². ° C or an R of 1.1. This insulation will be installed on my stripped north wall and covered with a hydraulic lime plaster. This additional thermal insulation solution will allow me to make my north wall breathable, protect it from heat (density of 370 kg / m3), clean up the few humidity problems encountered on this wall and should increase the thermal comfort of my house by removing the cold wall feel from the north wall. In addition, this insulator can be applied to the bottom of the wall avoiding thermal bridges encountered with the rock wool + wood cladding solution.
The estimate made by the facade renovation company is € 6 or € 800 / m². This estimate includes the complete stripping, the filling of cracks, the implementation of an edge sheet, the implementation of this insulator and the coating.
What do you think of it in financial and technical terms? Do you think that a final negotiation is possible knowing that there is no recovery at the level of shutters and / or windows? Has anyone used this insulation or an equivalent type made of cork and clay? Does the promise of dehumidification seem realistic to you? The entrepreneur tells me that my gas consumption will drop by around 10 to 15% and that thermal comfort in my house will be significantly improved. What do you think ?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
After a period of silence, the origin of the few humidity problems encountered on my north wall was analyzed. The problems encountered were due to condensation due to furniture too close to the north wall and a minimum extraction speed of my hygro A CMV too low. Consequently, the 2 incriminated pieces of furniture changed places and I increased the constant minimal extraction rate which is from now on of 30 m3 / h with increased rates in kitchen and bathroom if the noted humidity is high. Following precise measurements, no capillary rise was detected and I do not have to embark on large-scale work concerning the installation of peripheral drains.
After careful consideration and reconsideration of the total surface of my north wall to be insulated which is 42 m², my decision is to use 5 cm of an insulation called DIATHONIE EVOLUTION on the whole of the north wall. This insulation is composed of cork, clay, diatomaceous powders and polypropylene fibers with a lambda = 0.045 W / m². ° C or an R of 1.1. This insulation will be installed on my stripped north wall and covered with a hydraulic lime plaster. This additional thermal insulation solution will allow me to make my north wall breathable, protect it from heat (density of 370 kg / m3), clean up the few humidity problems encountered on this wall and should increase the thermal comfort of my house by removing the cold wall feel from the north wall. In addition, this insulator can be applied to the bottom of the wall avoiding thermal bridges encountered with the rock wool + wood cladding solution.
The estimate made by the facade renovation company is € 6 or € 800 / m². This estimate includes the complete stripping, the filling of cracks, the implementation of an edge sheet, the implementation of this insulator and the coating.
What do you think of it in financial and technical terms? Do you think that a final negotiation is possible knowing that there is no recovery at the level of shutters and / or windows? Has anyone used this insulation or an equivalent type made of cork and clay? Does the promise of dehumidification seem realistic to you? The entrepreneur tells me that my gas consumption will drop by around 10 to 15% and that thermal comfort in my house will be significantly improved. What do you think ?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
0 x
Coati84 - realization of a 40 m² wooden extension of my house: 2nd semester 2021
For exterior insulation, put much thicker, at least 15cm, not much more expensive, since the price is labor, and also that your roof does not exceed at all, which requires extending, even for 5cm,
and especially see the pdf of simple and inexpensive practical realization on the link:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post234795.html#234795
Your gable is not high and therefore you can make it yourself for cheap according to the pdf.
It is in your interest to insulate all exterior walls.
Scientifically verify that:
contains no errors !!!
What were the specific measures?
because by ventilating the humidity whatever its origin disappears, if it arrives less quickly than removed by the ventilation.
Have you done the simple test of the large waterproof plastic sheet placed on the wall, long enough, to check if the water is on the exterior (condensation) or interior surface against the wall (wall which releases its humidity, which often rises by evaporations, repeated condensations more than capillarity), or even both sides, (then both at the same time)
And a house without peripheral drainage very often has hidden wet lifts, especially when aging through rupture of the sealing films, often very insufficient, as I have observed in reality.
So you have a big risk of having both at the same time: condensation and wet rise from the ground, walls and your slab on the ground, more or less hidden and milked !!
leaves me perplexed, because your current wall is not breathable and therefore with a layer, even it breathable, it will not be more breathable than the current wall.
Have you calculated your thermal losses at 30m3 / h ??
or for 0 ° C outside and 20 ° C inside 210W lost 24 hours a day, not too huge but not zero.
Have you calculated how much evaporated water you evacuate in this way?
about 159g of liquid water per hour, if your natural humidity is 50% without an abnormal source of humidity in the house.
Have you calculated if it is not more interesting in energy to use an electric dehumidifier (small fridge) ???
Finally, with a warmer wall, your released humidity in the house will condense elsewhere on another point still cold, like your windows, at least.
and especially see the pdf of simple and inexpensive practical realization on the link:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post234795.html#234795
Your gable is not high and therefore you can make it yourself for cheap according to the pdf.
It is in your interest to insulate all exterior walls.
Scientifically verify that:
Following precise measurements, no capillary rise was detected
contains no errors !!!
What were the specific measures?
because by ventilating the humidity whatever its origin disappears, if it arrives less quickly than removed by the ventilation.
Have you done the simple test of the large waterproof plastic sheet placed on the wall, long enough, to check if the water is on the exterior (condensation) or interior surface against the wall (wall which releases its humidity, which often rises by evaporations, repeated condensations more than capillarity), or even both sides, (then both at the same time)
And a house without peripheral drainage very often has hidden wet lifts, especially when aging through rupture of the sealing films, often very insufficient, as I have observed in reality.
So you have a big risk of having both at the same time: condensation and wet rise from the ground, walls and your slab on the ground, more or less hidden and milked !!
will allow me to make my north wall breathable,
leaves me perplexed, because your current wall is not breathable and therefore with a layer, even it breathable, it will not be more breathable than the current wall.
Have you calculated your thermal losses at 30m3 / h ??
or for 0 ° C outside and 20 ° C inside 210W lost 24 hours a day, not too huge but not zero.
Have you calculated how much evaporated water you evacuate in this way?
about 159g of liquid water per hour, if your natural humidity is 50% without an abnormal source of humidity in the house.
Have you calculated if it is not more interesting in energy to use an electric dehumidifier (small fridge) ???
Finally, with a warmer wall, your released humidity in the house will condense elsewhere on another point still cold, like your windows, at least.
0 x
- Obamot
- Econologue expert
- posts: 28725
- Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
- Location: regio genevesis
- x 5538
Yes that Dedeleco, we always told him that we had to insulate from the outside! "Too expensive" he said...
And now how much has it cost him repeatedly his blunders ??
- Mr. Coati still has the solution ...
As usual:
- he decides then he comes to ask for opinions. (to consolidate his decision)
- then he executes what he (has) decided.
- it doesn't work, he consults, decides and comes back here to ask for further comfort ...
Bein no opinion this time.
[Joke:] Ah, shave and rebuild everything? (... given the design of the house)
PS: and to say that it was necessary to arrive there until finally to have a partial drinking photo.
And now how much has it cost him repeatedly his blunders ??
- Mr. Coati still has the solution ...
As usual:
- he decides then he comes to ask for opinions. (to consolidate his decision)
- then he executes what he (has) decided.
- it doesn't work, he consults, decides and comes back here to ask for further comfort ...
Bein no opinion this time.
[Joke:] Ah, shave and rebuild everything? (... given the design of the house)
PS: and to say that it was necessary to arrive there until finally to have a partial drinking photo.
0 x
Many thanks to Dedeleco. Thank you for your pragmatic advice.
The further I go, the more I think I can achieve this exterior insulation of the north wall myself with this HD rock wool solution + wooden frames + square brackets + rain screen + air layer + class 4 wood siding. The link that you gave me is very well done and I will draw great inspiration from it. The prices charged by the craftsmen seem prohibitive.
I take this opportunity to attach a photo of the "south" facade of my renovated house because that of my north wall dates from 2009. We can see the new windows, the new gutters and the pergola installed 15 days ago with or without painting and climbing plants. Our house becomes really pleasant to live in.
See you soon.
The further I go, the more I think I can achieve this exterior insulation of the north wall myself with this HD rock wool solution + wooden frames + square brackets + rain screen + air layer + class 4 wood siding. The link that you gave me is very well done and I will draw great inspiration from it. The prices charged by the craftsmen seem prohibitive.
I take this opportunity to attach a photo of the "south" facade of my renovated house because that of my north wall dates from 2009. We can see the new windows, the new gutters and the pergola installed 15 days ago with or without painting and climbing plants. Our house becomes really pleasant to live in.
See you soon.
0 x
Coati84 - realization of a 40 m² wooden extension of my house: 2nd semester 2021
- Obamot
- Econologue expert
- posts: 28725
- Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
- Location: regio genevesis
- x 5538
Yes "nice" blockhouse seen on the basis of the first photo of Coati:
As usual Dedeleco does not ask the good questions (not his job eh ...):
- what a luminous atmosphere there reigns ... considering the tiny size of certain windows?
- to what extent do these tiny or nonexistent eaves protect the facade from rain, etc?
- why a non-existent grip on the median around, which attracts moisture? (Much better to have done something on the front according to the new photos)
- what residual cold bridges remain because of the unobstructed air inlets visible at the bottom of the walls (since Coati says he had a VMA installed).
- but why did you install double aluminum window frames on such a construction (and cold bridge vectors increasing those that already exist)? Pure madness!
- at what point the design of this roof - apparently - without air circulation, does not transform the whole into a thermos if we increase the insulation coefficient without the usual precautions ...?
- since there is no asu, therefore no basement or technical vacuum (house mainly placed on the ground on all comers?) What to do then effective for the slab on the ground. ..? Completely insoluble problem.
- where is the north? What is the location?
Etc. ..
Yes, "pretty and cute" (only possible to say in view of the last photos published after a premature assessment ....)
But, the kind of shack full of problems, where all of them can be solved to transform it into passive by interior insulation, without tackling the causes of the problems one after the other, is likely to cost more than a real passive in kit ...
Especially when you improvise as a “prime contractor” like Coati and you have a strong character that sometimes clogs your zoreilles
I salute, however, his wisdom to finally proceed to an external insulation ... I deduce that it will eventually be reduced to also placing simple and light windows in PVC to break the cold bridges of its aluminum window frames ....
As usual Dedeleco does not ask the good questions (not his job eh ...):
- what a luminous atmosphere there reigns ... considering the tiny size of certain windows?
- to what extent do these tiny or nonexistent eaves protect the facade from rain, etc?
- why a non-existent grip on the median around, which attracts moisture? (Much better to have done something on the front according to the new photos)
- what residual cold bridges remain because of the unobstructed air inlets visible at the bottom of the walls (since Coati says he had a VMA installed).
- but why did you install double aluminum window frames on such a construction (and cold bridge vectors increasing those that already exist)? Pure madness!
- at what point the design of this roof - apparently - without air circulation, does not transform the whole into a thermos if we increase the insulation coefficient without the usual precautions ...?
- since there is no asu, therefore no basement or technical vacuum (house mainly placed on the ground on all comers?) What to do then effective for the slab on the ground. ..? Completely insoluble problem.
- where is the north? What is the location?
Etc. ..
Yes, "pretty and cute" (only possible to say in view of the last photos published after a premature assessment ....)
But, the kind of shack full of problems, where all of them can be solved to transform it into passive by interior insulation, without tackling the causes of the problems one after the other, is likely to cost more than a real passive in kit ...
Especially when you improvise as a “prime contractor” like Coati and you have a strong character that sometimes clogs your zoreilles
I salute, however, his wisdom to finally proceed to an external insulation ... I deduce that it will eventually be reduced to also placing simple and light windows in PVC to break the cold bridges of its aluminum window frames ....
0 x
Obamot,
Your post introductions are always aggressive: I think you should honestly improve yourself and others and this is just a suggestion.
However, your technical comments are wise and I take them into account to improve the end of my renovation.
I will try to answer it:
- the atmosphere of my house is really very bright because I now have 20 m² of glazing including 12 m² on the south facade (2 French doors, 1 glazed entrance door and 1 window),
- the eaves on the north facade are indeed tiny and must be enlarged with or without ITE on this wall,
- the existing right-of-way around the north facade is indeed too weak and moreover this channel is broken over 3 m long. I plan next month to repair this channel or even enlarge it and accentuate the slope of this channel is to create a lost well at the end of it. Do you have any suggestions for me in this regard? My very limited budgetary means at present do not allow me to do more currently. I fully understand this remark,
- the air intakes at the bottom have been properly caulked with rock wool and obstructed inside the house. I then put air intakes with a flow rate of about 30 m3 / h on all the windows except the humid rooms (kitchen, WC, bathroom) to operate the CMV hygro A,
- the fact of putting these aluminum DV argon gas windows answered the fact that I had single glazed wooden windows set up in 1960 and which were falling apart. I was obliged to change these windows even if an ITE all around the house would have been technically perfect at the same time. I had to make financial choices and the ITE was not carried out. As a reminder, my annual gas consumption is now 15 kWh, or around € 000. The return on investment linked to the implementation of an ITE all around the house then exceeded 800 years,
- the roof actually includes air circulation provided by 12 cat tiles placed near the sewer and the ridge (cat tiles invisible on the photos). This circulation normally ensures the evacuation of air above the rock wool deposited in bulk on the attic floor,
- there is no crawl space but a hedgehog composed of crushed stones with a thickness of about 15 - 20 cm. This hedgehog provides a seat to the slab on the median. I agree with you that there is not much to do from a thermal point of view. This hedgehog normally avoids rising humidity by capillary action,
- the north is at the facade with the windows, the south is in front of my terrace with the pergola.
I understand what you are saying about the fact that there are problems in this type of house. My goal of renovation is to analyze each of these problems and gradually solve them to the extent of my limited financial means. My house is now nice and this is especially true for the interior (unpublished photos). I know very well that I must now carry out this ITE of the north wall: I must find the appropriate financing solutions and make the right technical choice.
I confirm that I take into account all the wise suggestions concerning my renovation; the suggestions on this site being in the vast majority with a lot of common sense. I also hope that the choices I make - and which I try to justify - can help some who undertake a renovation of a mundane pavilion from the 60s.
Thank you for your comments and have a good day everyone.
Your post introductions are always aggressive: I think you should honestly improve yourself and others and this is just a suggestion.
However, your technical comments are wise and I take them into account to improve the end of my renovation.
I will try to answer it:
- the atmosphere of my house is really very bright because I now have 20 m² of glazing including 12 m² on the south facade (2 French doors, 1 glazed entrance door and 1 window),
- the eaves on the north facade are indeed tiny and must be enlarged with or without ITE on this wall,
- the existing right-of-way around the north facade is indeed too weak and moreover this channel is broken over 3 m long. I plan next month to repair this channel or even enlarge it and accentuate the slope of this channel is to create a lost well at the end of it. Do you have any suggestions for me in this regard? My very limited budgetary means at present do not allow me to do more currently. I fully understand this remark,
- the air intakes at the bottom have been properly caulked with rock wool and obstructed inside the house. I then put air intakes with a flow rate of about 30 m3 / h on all the windows except the humid rooms (kitchen, WC, bathroom) to operate the CMV hygro A,
- the fact of putting these aluminum DV argon gas windows answered the fact that I had single glazed wooden windows set up in 1960 and which were falling apart. I was obliged to change these windows even if an ITE all around the house would have been technically perfect at the same time. I had to make financial choices and the ITE was not carried out. As a reminder, my annual gas consumption is now 15 kWh, or around € 000. The return on investment linked to the implementation of an ITE all around the house then exceeded 800 years,
- the roof actually includes air circulation provided by 12 cat tiles placed near the sewer and the ridge (cat tiles invisible on the photos). This circulation normally ensures the evacuation of air above the rock wool deposited in bulk on the attic floor,
- there is no crawl space but a hedgehog composed of crushed stones with a thickness of about 15 - 20 cm. This hedgehog provides a seat to the slab on the median. I agree with you that there is not much to do from a thermal point of view. This hedgehog normally avoids rising humidity by capillary action,
- the north is at the facade with the windows, the south is in front of my terrace with the pergola.
I understand what you are saying about the fact that there are problems in this type of house. My goal of renovation is to analyze each of these problems and gradually solve them to the extent of my limited financial means. My house is now nice and this is especially true for the interior (unpublished photos). I know very well that I must now carry out this ITE of the north wall: I must find the appropriate financing solutions and make the right technical choice.
I confirm that I take into account all the wise suggestions concerning my renovation; the suggestions on this site being in the vast majority with a lot of common sense. I also hope that the choices I make - and which I try to justify - can help some who undertake a renovation of a mundane pavilion from the 60s.
Thank you for your comments and have a good day everyone.
0 x
Coati84 - realization of a 40 m² wooden extension of my house: 2nd semester 2021
- Obamot
- Econologue expert
- posts: 28725
- Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
- Location: regio genevesis
- x 5538
Coati84 wrote:Obamot,
Your post introductions are always aggressive:
It depends on who, why, how and when the information is given or the work done. Yes there are things that make me get out of my hinges I assume. And I don't know why, when there is no cohesion, I tend to take the proposals with tweezers ...
Coati84 wrote:However, your technical comments are wise and I take them into account to improve the end of my renovation.
- on the bottom, thank you but I can't help it, it's the configuration of the places that dictates the possible options [and also a bit of imagination following the case study ...]. In this context, it is better to do nothing than to make gross mistakes which will turn out to be costly later.
- on the form, I will not yet regret that you did not come before, or at least to have asked adequate questions from the start (that you already know). And as already reported, it would have saved you money. But be it, let's turn the page.
Coati84 wrote:I will try to answer it:
- the atmosphere of my house is really very bright because I now have 20 m² of glazing including 12 m² on the south facade (2 French doors, 1 glazed entrance door and 1 window),
Understand that it is a little heartbreaking to discover it at the end of the work ... It is against this type of approach that I am a little virulent. It's not especially against you, it expresses regret and that's precisely what should be avoided for those who start.
Coati84 wrote:- the eaves on the north facade are indeed tiny and must be enlarged with or without ITE on this wall,
It can be light, as long as it removes the sun's rays or the rain. There are very nice synthetic structural forms, which have the shape of these corrugated sheets. And it's not expensive. But it would only go in one direction. I don't have too much idea about this, it's structural. I understand better your embarrassment to make an external insulation (if we had seen the photos ...) You may understand better a certain exasperation ... If you make the external insulation. You could possibly make a false eaves which would have its base thanks to brackets and would arise flush with the existing roof (and under it for the east and west facades ...) while resting on the wood chassis for facade insulation?
Coati84 wrote:- the existing right-of-way around the north facade is indeed too weak and moreover this channel is broken over 3 m long. I plan next month to repair this channel or even enlarge it and accentuate the slope of this channel is to create a lost well at the end of it. Do you have any suggestions for me in this regard? My very limited budgetary means at present do not allow me to do more currently. I fully understand this remark,
The first thing to see is the drainage. Are there any plans? Otherwise, it would be good to dig a hole against the wall - east side or west side - to see up to 1m deep what type of aggregates you will meet. If you come across a succession of aggregates of sand and gravel of different grain sizes. You won't have to worry about doing nothing. Otherwise. It is in your best interest to excavate all around the construction for about 1 meter. Place a tar coating (if it does not already exist) then apply DELTA MS. and then to examine the relevance of the installation of a proper drainage (if non-existent). Because if you do nothing and insulate the facade, you expose yourself to a problem of rising humidity which can ruin your investment ... Laughter is a bit like dealing with the effects without going back to the causes! The lack of prominent eaves will only reinforce this humidity problem. To compensate for this, you could also run a hydraulic cement screed all around (as you did on the front with the French windows), so as to make the runoff flow back a little further. (But that does not free you from examining the state of construction on the foundation side, to see how the basement looks beforehand, it is the conclusions that will come out of it that will determine the procedure to follow. .). It seems to me that this is a sine qua non condition for the future.
Coati84 wrote:- the air intakes at the bottom have been properly caulked with rock wool and obstructed inside the house.
It would be good to control the degree of hygrometry near these air inlets during the cold season (just by putting the flat of the hand against the wall, you can feel it => if there is no difference with the rest, there is no problem). Maybe you did.
Coati84 wrote:I then put air intakes with a flow rate of about 30 m3 / h on all the windows except the humid rooms (kitchen, WC, bathroom) to operate the CMV hygro A,
A photo?
Coati84 wrote:- the fact of putting these aluminum DV argon gas windows answered the fact that I had single glazed wooden windows set up in 1960 and which were falling apart. I was obliged to change these windows even if an ITE all around the house would have been technically perfect at the same time. I had to make financial choices and the ITE was not carried out. As a reminder, my annual gas consumption is now 15 kWh, or around € 000. The return on investment linked to the implementation of an ITE all around the house then exceeded 800 years,
It's not excessive. But you have understood that you had better make the insulation yourself. There is a recent thread on this subject which shows the procedure to follow.
Coati84 wrote:- the roof actually includes air circulation provided by 12 cat tiles placed near the sewer and the ridge (cat tiles invisible on the photos). This circulation normally ensures the evacuation of air above the rock wool deposited in bulk on the attic floor,
Fortunately. Beware of rock wool, as dangerous as asbestos according to our chemist ...! This is (possibly but surely) a point to be corrected, you could breathe it unintentionally when you are on your terrace or in the garden ... Breathing masks gloves and boots, if you do it yourself. Then vacuum the remaining particles once they have fallen and rather twice than one ... Then apply a paint to trap the rest ...
Coati84 wrote:- there is no crawl space but a hedgehog composed of crushed stones with a thickness of about 15 - 20 cm. This hedgehog provides a seat to the slab on the median. I agree with you that there is not much to do from a thermal point of view. This hedgehog normally avoids rising humidity by capillary action,
Ah ok, good news. In this case a small hydraulic cement screed placed on the all-comer then gravel would be enough (to see on site after digging a little)?
Coati84 wrote:- the north is at the facade with the windows, the south is in front of my terrace with the pergola.
Yes, but when it rains, humidity is all around.
Coati84 wrote:I understand what you are saying about the fact that there are problems in this type of house. My goal of renovation is to analyze each of these problems and gradually solve them to the extent of my limited financial means. My house is now nice and this is especially true for the interior (unpublished photos). I know very well that I must now carry out this ITE of the north wall: I must find the appropriate financing solutions and make the right technical choice.
Why just insulate the north wall? You will create cold bridges on both sides! ...
If it is a question of budget, in your place I would put the wooden frames all around. I would make them airtight (silicone seal or other at the junction with the fronts and the compartments between them). Then I would use - as a temporary solution - the air space inside the boxes as insulation (a controlled containment air space ... sort of). To do that, I would finish with an insulating plug whose design remains to be defined (I have been working on this for quite a while and it's not easy: it has to be very cheap, durable, and functioning like a membrane. allowing only the strict necessary "breathing" to pass but without letting the calories out) this calculated including a vapor barrier or barrier (according to the calculation of your dew point).
Coati84 wrote:I confirm that I take into account all the wise suggestions concerning my renovation; the suggestions on this site being in the vast majority with a lot of common sense. I also hope that the choices I make - and which I try to justify - can help some who undertake a renovation of a mundane pavilion from the 60s.
We have only scratched the surface. There must be as many solutions as there are different types of construction, but I also confirm the way in which some participants have a certain tendency to post here - not so much to ask for opinions - but to consolidate in THEIR technical choices (so that these arise from situations on a case-by-case basis). If I may allow myself this metaphor: if it is raining outside, you are not going to decide to go out without an umbrella, ask for an opinion to confirm your decision, then go out without, and finally come home soaking in saying "that in the future you will take into account the opinions", you have to put things in the right order (I reassure you, the design of the thiokol joints of the space shuttle tanks, was done a bit like that, lightly, too ... It can happen everywhere). So much the better if you have decided to change your paradigm. (I say it without cynicism)
Coati84 wrote:Thank you for your comments and have a good day everyone.
Thank you for your post, which certainly contrasts with other amha.
0 x
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