insulation renovation, a real jungle!

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dodo
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insulation renovation, a real jungle!




by dodo » 02/04/11, 00:54

Hello,

As part of my thermal renovation project I appealed to different actors of the insulation of artisans, an architect (MO) and a design office (AMO).

when you don't know it, it's a real jungle,

-craftsmen (carpentry, ite, insulation of all ramps) about 25 0000

I had called on an architect wishing to take advantage of the opportunity to do development work on the first floor.

-architect i (carpentry 1st floor, ite, insulation of all crawling + plasterboard + MOE in RT 2012 around 30


design office (thermician) with support mission
on the energy part of the site (insulation, heating, air renewal, identification of each loss-bearing wall and the building's "thermal weaknesses"
Research of the most appropriate insulation and heating techniques
Concrete proposals to get closer to or reach the BBC renovation level (approx. 100 kWh / m².year in renovation)

budget 70 euros. : Evil:

when I see all these figures I have a little regret not having found land to build it would probably have been cheaper.

the good news is that i will be able to benefit from anah's grant, but i would not want to plant myself in my choice given the price that needs to be aligned.

what is the difference between rt2012 and bbc?
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sspid14
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by sspid14 » 02/04/11, 11:06

Either you own the whole neighborhood and you can afford it or you exaggerate in the prices ...

I do not know what the carpentry represents so to see ...

For the thermal part I want to do it myself for 7000 € in black ... and I take a good margin there.
The prices you found are probably for a factory or whatever. There is a lot more research.

Your architect, I don't know what he's going to do, but he's going to make a good living with you ...
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by Christophe » 02/04/11, 11:16

€ 70 for thermal renovation ??? Either you live in a chateau or there is REALLY big mouth foutage in the air. : Evil:

Suppose you earn € 2000 (already a lot) on your energy bill per year after work, ask them how long it will take to pay off ...

And then, 100 kWh / m².year is still a good bill! I mean far from zero (we're around 60-70 us)

Then you have to see exactly the conditions.

So could you scan the proposals?

ps: Is the design office not EdF Bleu Ciel certified? ... : Evil:
No comment...
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 02/04/11, 16:56

ps: Is the design office not EdF Bleu Ciel certified? ...

and they don't stop calling to scam (over a hundred times and this morning 3 times : Mrgreen: ) !!!

Elbow oil by doing it yourself is much cheaper and more if not happy we are responsible for it ourselves !!

This dodo house looks very ordinary !!!

They make an external insulation with the roof bbc or rt2012 without thermal bridges with less than 50KWh / m2 per year guaranteed to start again if not true ??????
350m2 at 200 € per m2 gives 70000 €

As much to heat in solar thermal summer in the ground for winter ????
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dodo
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by dodo » 02/04/11, 19:07

if only I had a castle I could have the means, but there my castle is only 110m2 habitable see 120 on the ground.

in fact the proposal of the architect is almost at the price of the craftsmen there is just the commission of follow-up of the building site in addition.

in fact the architect made me a cheaper proposal than the study office with the renovation of the 1st floor either (breaking all the partitions, redoing the distribution of the rooms, moving 2 windows and adding 2 windows.

the only problem is that the insulation of the crawlers is LV and itite of polystirene which may pose a problem with our ITI.

Regarding the design office I do not think it is sky blue EDF, it is against electric heating.

I do not have a quote, I just have a budget to plan with monitoring of the sites with thermal camera and new dpe.
but when I met him he told me about cotton wool insulated in boxes for the attic, it is 15 cm LR, and solar heating.


in alsace we have examples of houses to renovate in bbc and prices vary from 50 to 000.

http://www.energivie.fr/fr/actualites/50chantierspionniers.html


it is clear that with this sum I can heat myself for a long time.

currently a little little birds, but hey I do not want to be plucked like a pigeon either
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 02/04/11, 22:38

Heat losses social security go from how much to how much at the end ?? for how many savings per year?

All this proves that energy is not expensive measured in working hours !!

Unless its price explodes?

It does not include future disasters of future global warming with a rise in sea level of 2m per century, as 13000 years ago, spontaneous without human CO2, nor nuclear disasters at 1000 billion $ each as in Japan !!

This investment can be found for sale in the future especially if the price of energy increases with bbc houses or without heating expenditure at all with well designed solar ??

On a well designed new house, the investment to never again have heating costs in perpetuity can be worth it, but on old house with remaining defects, it is less obvious.
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dodo
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by dodo » 02/04/11, 23:45

dedeleco wrote:Heat losses social security go from how much to how much at the end ?? for how many savings per year?

All this proves that energy is not expensive measured in working hours !!

Unless its price explodes?

It does not include future disasters of future global warming with a rise in sea level of 2m per century, as 13000 years ago, spontaneous without human CO2, nor nuclear disasters at 1000 billion $ each as in Japan !!

This investment can be found for sale in the future especially if the price of energy increases with bbc houses or without heating expenditure at all with well designed solar ??

On a well designed new house, the investment to never again have heating costs in perpetuity can be worth it, but on old house with remaining defects, it is less obvious.



of course their argument is to play on the fact that a barrel of oil can reach $ 200.

I think it's dividing consumption by 4.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 03/04/11, 02:37

I looked at an example from this list:
http://www.energivie.fr/medias/actualit ... 5-herr.pdf

and it ends up in a heat pump to use Fessenheim longer, going from € 3130 to € 670 per year with € 107000 of work !!

and say that the same house (240KWh / m2 considering the factor 2,58) with little extra insulation would only consume roughly the same € 670 by burning wood in an insert, in particular free wood thrown a little everywhere in the gardens, in the recycling centers, even burnt in the open air with maximum pollution !! (I have my gardens full with those of my neighbors too)
And this for the price of an insert with basic hot air circulator with a crusher with drying in the summer sun !!
And with € 100000 saved !!!
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by bham » 03/04/11, 11:51

Hi dodo, are you in Alsace?

I am in Moselle, I have a project similar to yours, I made an estimate for a total renovation of a house of 115m2 on 2 floors, there was for 65000 € and an architect confirmed to me that it was a normal price.

So I go to elbow grease, cogitation and system D because you will come to understand that aid from ANAH and others is very good, but it is always dependent on work done by companies and in in the end it still costs you a lot more; when you work and you can not do otherwise why not but otherwise do as much yourself, possibly by subcontracting for some work.
Result: I will insulate from the outside by bringing a wooden frame into which I will infuse cellulose wadding, all covered with siding.

For comparison, I need for my insulation about 2 tonnes of cellulose wadding at € 0,82 including VAT / kg or € 1640 including VAT (at the rate of 20 / 22cm of wadding thickness). but it gives you a comparative idea of ​​the prices.

Do you have pictures of your house, could we get a more precise idea?
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dodo
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by dodo » 03/04/11, 15:22

bham wrote:Hi dodo, are you in Alsace?

I am in Moselle, I have a project similar to yours, I made an estimate for a total renovation of a house of 115m2 on 2 floors, there was for 65000 € and an architect confirmed to me that it was a normal price.

So I go to elbow grease, cogitation and system D because you will come to understand that aid from ANAH and others is very good, but it is always dependent on work done by companies and in in the end it still costs you a lot more; when you work and you can not do otherwise why not but otherwise do as much yourself, possibly by subcontracting for some work.
Result: I will insulate from the outside by bringing a wooden frame into which I will infuse cellulose wadding, all covered with siding.

For comparison, I need for my insulation about 2 tonnes of cellulose wadding at € 0,82 including VAT / kg or € 1640 including VAT (at the rate of 20 / 22cm of wadding thickness). but it gives you a comparative idea of ​​the prices.

Do you have pictures of your house, could we get a more precise idea?


yes i am in alsace, so i am not the only one to have had crazy prices to earn a few euros per year on its energy bill.

for the question of elbow grease it is a solution that many people choose, but hey it is necessary to have the know-how and not to have a health problem.

in the offer at 70 euros compared to the others there is also a change in heating from electric to hydraulic.
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