Choice of windows and glazing renovation

[bham]

Regarding the choice of glazing in my project, I am redeploying the reasoning that I put online on the forum Futura sciences:

My calculations as a first approximation for a month of December are as follows:
- source http://pagesperso-orange.fr/herve.silve/bilan_th.htm
- solar irradiation value in 84 [zone H2] on a vertical plane: 24 x 58.9 W / m² = 1.4 kWh / m²
- average temperature in December: 5.5 ° C
- average duration of sunshine fixed at approximately 7 hours in December
- standard double glazing 4/16/4:
solar gain - loss = 1 x 400 x 0.76 hours - 7 x (2.8 - 19.5) x 5.5 hours = 24 - 7 = 448 kWh / m²
- double glazing 4/16/4 with low emissivity face
solar gain - loss = 1 x 400 x 0.64 hours - 7 x (1.4 - 19.5) x 5.5 hours = 24 - 6 = 272 kWh / m²

This calculation must be redone for the other 5 months of heating, but it is always the standard double glazing which is the most appropriate for the "south" orientation because of a greater solar contribution. An approximate calculation for the 6 months of heating (mid-October to mid-April) gives an annual advantage of 8 kWh / m² for standard double glazing, ie in my case an annual advantage of 80 kWh.

Do you agree with me ?

I did not redo your calculations, the software seems to take into account the solar gain and the losses, but does it take into account the impression of cold wall and the discomfort which results from it, I do not think.
Look at this diagram from the Internorm site http://www.internorm.fr/Internorm_Tipps_639.html to concretely understand what I am saying. So in the Var it is rarely -10 ° outside it's true but you can now see the difference that there can be between 2 DV




Now the solar heat that you are going to capture must be retained as long as possible, in my opinion your concrete block wall is not enough, it should at least be filled with concrete or sand to increase its inertia. But since it already exists, it should be doubled with raw clay bricks for example.
On the window side, in the case of standard DV, thick curtains are essential.
And you go on 7 hours of sunshine / day, which leaves 17 hours of sunshine, considering of course that there is sun every day, which is perhaps a little optimistic.

Is the software based on an average of sunshine based on weather data from past years or does it decide that there is sun every day, whatever the weather?

For the manufacturers of glazing, I will look in my archives.

[Coati84]

Thank you bham for this link which I will study carefully.

It is true that my approximate static calculation does not take into account the cold wall effect ... and that 7 hours of average daily sunshine in December is probably a little optimistic.

The more I advance, the more the choice will probably be made - even for a "southern" orientation - towards a DV FE.

Thank you in advance for your research on a DV FE with a good solar factor (ie> 0.63). Only the DV CLIMAPLUS N from SAINT GOBAIN seems correct to me, but I would like to find another one to play the competition.

See you later.

[Coati84]

Hi,

Finally the last question of the evening. All my joinery will be in aluminum with thermal break and I intend to use only FE argon double glazing of CLIMAPLUS N type with Ug = 1.2 W / m².K and a solar factor (Fs) of 0.64.

Can I only use these CLIMAPLUS N type double glazing or should I opt for CLIMAPLUS N SWS type double glazing which has the "Warm Edge" Swisspacer interlayer? In short, and in order to reduce the possible condensation of corner aluminum joinery, is this "Warm Edge" spacer useful ... or is it just marketing? Finally, what is the solar factor value of this CLIMAPLUS N SWS type DV?

See you later.

Note:
Excuse me for quoting this glassmaker but I am obliged to take a mark with technical data. Besides, if anyone knows a competitor to this glassmaker, I am interested.

[bham]

Hi,

Finally the last question of the evening. All my joinery will be in aluminum with thermal break and I intend to use only FE argon double glazing of CLIMAPLUS N type with Ug = 1.2 W / m².K and a solar factor (Fs) of 0.64.

Can I only use these CLIMAPLUS N type double glazing or should I opt for CLIMAPLUS N SWS type double glazing which has the "Warm Edge" Swisspacer interlayer? In short, and in order to reduce the possible condensation of corner aluminum joinery, is this "Warm Edge" spacer useful ... or is it just marketing? Finally, what is the solar factor value of this CLIMAPLUS N SWS type DV?

You know we don't work at St Gobain anyway, do you? Couldn't you put us a link to find out what this is about?

Well otherwise, I found Interpane (factory in Moselle) and AGC (Belgian), there are surely others but it already gives you comparisons.

http://www.interpane.com/interpane2008/ ... 10129.html : IplusCE 4/10/4 Ug = 1,0 g = 62%

http://www.interpane.com/interpane2008/ ... 10127.html : Iplus neutral E 4/16/4 Ug = 1,1 g = 62%

http://www.interpane.com/accueil_7.html Go to the technical data to see all the glazing. I know that Bieber Bois works with Interpane.

There is also the Belgian glassmaker AGC with whom I found this other sketch:

http://www.agc-flatglass.eu/AGC-Flat-Gl ... .aspx/1034

http://www.yourglass.fr/agc-flatglass-europe/home.html

Planibel LOW-E Top N + 4/16/4 Ug 1,1 g = 64%
Planibel LOW-E Top N + T 4/16/4 Ug 1,1 g = 68%
and the top in triple glazing:
Planibel LOW-E Tri 4/14/4/14/4 Ug 0,7 g = 63%

Good for you to search, I think that will be enough for you , for the chocolate box, I'll give you the address
If you prefer a check I also accept

[Coati84]

Thank you so much bham.

I will study all the links you cite this evening.

For those who do not work at SAINT GOBAIN, here is the link that may be useful for those who are looking for insulating DVs with a good solar factor: the CLIMAPLUS N DV

http://fr.saint-gobain-glass.com/b2c/de ... ne&id=1905

Good day to all.

[Coati84]

Hi,

I am going to set up 3 bay windows with brick partitioning 2 leaves with a monorail on walls whose exact composition is, from the outside to the inside: cement coating facade thick. 3 cm - concrete block th. 20 cm - plaster plaster thick. 10 cm for a total thickness of 33 cm. The total thickness of the bay window is 16 cm.

The question of the day is as follows:
Do I have to remove the plaster coating and put the frames of the bay window directly on the bare concrete block? And do some light insulation - with rock wool - on each side of the fixed frame? Or should I position my bay windows directly on the plaster coating so as not to lose the insulation even reduced by these 10 cm?
This masonry work prior to installation would allow me to have only an extra thickness of 6 cm compared to the current position of my walls.

Note:
The thermal engineer I saw the day before yesterday - and who has lived for many years in the South of France - recommended that I use standard double glazing for all windows with a southern orientation. He made it clear to me that this is the only way to make passive solar.

See you later.

[bham]

I am going to set up 3 bay windows with brick partitioning 2 leaves with a monorail on walls whose exact composition is, from the outside to the inside: cement coating facade thick. 3 cm - concrete block th. 20 cm - plaster plaster thick. 10 cm for a total thickness of 33 cm. The total thickness of the bay window is 16 cm.

The question of the day is as follows:
Do I have to remove the plaster coating and put the frames of the bay window directly on the bare concrete block? And do some light insulation - with rock wool - on each side of the fixed frame? Or should I position my bay windows directly on the plaster coating so as not to lose the insulation even reduced by these 10 cm?

Hi Coati. A sketch would have been perfect to fully understand because when we talk about brick partition, tell me if I'm wrong, we are talking about leaves which, when opening, disappear between two walls for example. If you confirm it, the leaves must therefore "fit" between plaster and concrete block or between concrete block and any external insulation. I would also recommend this last solution, which means that your bay frame would be fixed not on the inside of the concrete block but on its outside; this obviously implies a shift of your window in relation to your plaster of 33 cm but if you make an insulation from the outside, you will not have on the other hand a gap between the outside side of your window and your plaster or cladding on insulation exterior.

The thermal engineer I saw the day before yesterday - and who has lived for many years in the South of France - recommended that I use standard double glazing for all windows with a southern orientation. He made it clear to me that this is the only way to make passive solar.

He has a good command of passive solar?
Well, you had all the information in your hands, the pros and cons, the software and the calculations, it is surely very good but sometimes it obscures common sense.
So good choice!
Edit: if you are going on standard DV, drop the external insulation, it will only be a stopgap, and in this case put your bay frames inside, fixed on the inside of the block.

[Coati84]

Thanks bham.

Regarding the standard DV set up on windows and bay windows facing "south", I would like to point out that I will not put in place any exterior insulation. Only a thermal correction will be implemented upstairs with a spill of cork granules between the future plasterboard brick and the concrete block.
This is why I intend to put the bay windows bare inside the "south" wall. Finally, summer sun protection will be ensured by the fact that the joinery will be positioned indoors and that a pergola will be installed with a Virginia creeper.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... TQSlPk.jpg

Do you have any advice for me regarding the use or not of the "Warm Edge" Swisspacer spacer on aluminum joinery?

Finally last question: for a question of responsibility and even if it costs more, I intend to have the removal of the dormant by the carpenter rather than by the mason. What do you think ?

See you later.

[bham]

Do you have any advice for me regarding the use or not of the "Warm Edge" Swisspacer spacer on aluminum joinery?

Finally last question: for a question of responsibility and even if it costs more, I intend to have the removal of the dormant by the carpenter rather than by the mason. What do you think ?

See you later.

For the tab, I don't know what it is, explain to me before I can get an opinion.
For the last question, it doesn't matter much; anyway, qq is the craftsman, they cut the old sleeper in several places and they tear everything out.

[Coati84]

This "Warm Edge" insert is shown below

http://www.swisspacer.com/fr/produits/p ... -edge.html

I am focused on the DV FE Climaplus N - or the AGC PLANIBEL LOW-E TOP N + T - which has interesting characteristics for me: Ug = 1.2 W / m².K and a solar factor of 0.64. I cannot find these 2 characteristics for the DV FE Climaplus N on the technical presentation brochures of the CLIMAPLUS range. I will inquire with SGG.

http://fr.saint-gobain-glass.com/upload ... aplus_.pdf

Does anyone have any feedback from this type of insert? Is there really a technical added value? Is it just a marketing argument?

See you later.

Note:
Thank you bham for all your reflections which allow me to master this subject fairly well before consulting the various carpenters-installers selected.