Construction or renovation: choose your windows

Help and advice for your real work in new or renovation, interior or exterior.
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bham
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Construction or renovation: choose your windows




by bham » 30/01/07, 17:49

I would like to open a topic on the choice of windows that can be brought in new construction as renovation, choice that I'm about to do myself.
Between the materials constituting the frame, the various glazings, the insulation values, many unknowns.
It goes without saying that I am looking for windows:
- does not harm, by its materials, the health of mine
-presenting a good compromise gray energy / cost / maintenance
-presentant a very global thermal insulation, ie both the glazing and the frame.

I will try to share my research and discoveries in this area as they progress.

For starters, you can play with this calculator (it's advertising but good ..) that shows you the possible savings of heating on 30 years between a single glazed window and triple glazing for example and the decline of CO2, SO2 and NO2 generated. Between single glazing (Uw = 5,80) and triple glazing (the top Uw = 0,680), we save on 30 years, 36 775 liters of fuel, either 25 742 € (!!!!!!) or 514 wood steres and we avoid the emission of 102 tons of CO2 !!!!!! Awesome, no?
Link : http://www.internorm.fr/cps/rde/xchg/SI ... _1210.html
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by Christophe » 30/01/07, 18:08

Very good initiative bahm, the subject has already been discussed on the forum it seems to me: Refit-real-work / renovation-the-choice-of-joinery-t2318.html

Besides, you were the 1ere to answer ...

Uh If not your calculations is true? How many window m2? Not 1 m2 anyway?
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by bham » 30/01/07, 18:34

Christophe wrote:Very good initiative bahm, the subject has already been discussed on the forum it seems to me: Refit-real-work / renovation-the-choice-of-joinery-t2318.html

This is true but I would like to go further in the reflection.

Christophe wrote: Uh If not your calculations is true? How many window m2? Not 1 m2 anyway?


They write that the boxes are automatically supplemented by calculation formulas. Make sure it's true? no, I can not check that myself, so if I fail, I believe them.
The example is 30 m2.
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by Christophe » 30/01/07, 18:58

bham wrote:They write that the boxes are automatically supplemented by calculation formulas. Make sure it's true? no, I can not check that myself, so if I fail, I believe them.
The example is 30 m2.


Ok for 30m2 of window I prefer!

I'm going to test this calculator a bit ... Before starting, there is still something that intrigues me: the temperature delta is nowhere entered ... However, the losses depend directly on this quantity. I suppose that the calculator takes the "worst" value (in other words: heating thoroughly all the time ...)

Otherwise we see very well that the gains of triple glazing are quite negligible from a thermal point of view: it is more of sound insulation than thermal ...

ps: I put the direct link in your post 8)
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by bham » 07/02/07, 07:02

Christophe wrote:
Ok for 30m2 of window I prefer!
ps: I put the direct link in your post


The link does not work for me Christophe :|
Regarding the surface of the glazing, it may be that for a small house or an apartment, the difference is minimal but I had the opportunity to spend a few long hours in the hospital last week and I could see that this The building had large windows and even double glazed 4/12/4 windows and not "low emissivity" (too old). Moreover and the worst was the frame of these windows, in gray aluminum without thermal break.
In other words, a radiator directly connected to the cold outside. Since there must be hundreds of m2 windows in this hospital, I let you imagine the energy consumption needed to compensate for losses. : Evil:
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by bham » 07/02/07, 08:01

Christophe wrote: I'm going to test this calculator a bit ... Before starting, there is still something that intrigues me: the temperature delta is nowhere entered ... However, the losses depend directly on this quantity. I suppose that the calculator takes the "worst" value (in other words: heating thoroughly all the time ...)

Otherwise we see very well that the gains of triple glazing are quite negligible from a thermal point of view: it is more of sound insulation than thermal ...


About delta of t ° c, here is an interesting illustration.
Image
It's very telling and confirms what I've seen elsewhere. For those who do not speak German:
aussen = outside
innen = inside
beschichtung = film, layer
1er case: classic double glazing
2è case: double glazing low emissivity (isolierverglasung)
3è case: triple glazed low emissivity (wärmeschutzverglasung)

isolierverglasung = wärmeschutzverglasung it means respectively insulating glazing and glazing with heat protection but it's the same thing, a glazing covered with a thin metal film that will act as a thin insulation, preventing the transfer of infrared rays from the inside outwards or vice versa if you are looking for protection against summer heat (on velux windows for example).
This film has the disadvantage of reducing the light transmission of the glass.
On the other hand the triple glazing avoids the sensation of cold wall which will make that we will mount the heating to have 25 / 30 ° C to 2,50 m, so ceiling and 20 ° C to 1m soil. The difference in value Uw or Ug is probably not flagrant but concretely it is probably felt, especially near a bay window.

So of course, it is not everywhere and always -10 ° C outside and we can think that in the majority of cases, low emissivity double glazing will be enough to have sufficient interior comfort. But knowing that windows are a long-term investment and that the climate is changing, are we heading towards a "smoothing" of temperatures throughout the year, and therefore temperatures rarely below 0 ° / -5 ° C or on the contrary in the long term towards greater T ° amplitudes such as continental climate, -20 ° in winter and + 40 ° in summer? For everyone to see.

One thing is certain, the classic double glazing (without film) is outdated, it is not enough to avoid this feeling of cold wall, even without doubt with more warm external T ° c.
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Insulation by the windows




by build sustainable » 12/09/10, 12:39

Hello,

It is true that the energy savings between a single glazing and a double are enormous. we go from Ug of 5 or 6 W / m²K to Ug of 1W / m²K. However between a double and a triple glazing the gain is much less visible (triple glazing limits solar intake in winter ..). To be sustainable I would advise, if you have money:

-Double glazing 4 / 16 / 4
-Ug about 1W / m²K
-Dormant in mixed wood interior and alu exterior
- CSTB certified for AEV (Air Water Vent) coef

If you have less money to put on, you can take recyclable PVC sleepers.

We must also pay attention to the pose because often the problems of thermal bridges are located at the level of the frame of the window.

To calculate the coefficients AEV and to have a lot of information, you can go on the site

http://www.construire-durable.com/site/ ... etres.html

See you soon
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by Obamot » 12/09/10, 14:13

Among the best points of comparisons, except what can be obtained in the laboratory, we find it in experiments done in the field.

There was a case of pseudo double aluminum wood windows and masonry or copper mansard frame (in the house I live in). Internal insulation and terrible cold bridge by aluminum, amplified by a "pile" effect of copper and / or masonry ...

PVC windows double glazing + gas, had a fantastic effect.

For:
Disappearance of the bridge of cold and mold caused by the condensation brought by this one. Gain of several degrees, very shortened heating period ... Comfort of life. In short, do not hesitate. Soundproofing. Appearance, design (interior, exterior). No need to renovate (stain) or feed the wood. Neither to review the sealant of the glazing. More deterrent to break-ins without tools (risk of injury / s / s caused by breakage of double glazing.)

Against:
Regular maintenance with water + soap. Unknown concerning the aging resistance of PVC: UV, shocks, embrittlement of the structure (becoming brittle, as some plastics in the automotive industry?) So unknown life / s. More vulnerable to break-ins (except reinforced frame resistant and / or anti-picking models). I doubt that PVC is guaranteed for life like oak ...

A good configuration plan in renovation:
Make a facade insulation.
Replace old wood with double PVC.
Recycle the old wooden to be mounted on the wooden frames of the facade insulation.
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by chatelot16 » 12/09/10, 15:11

all these calculation software, which show the advantage of the super quality windows make me a laugh if you do not know how to measure the actual result

idea of ​​measure: block the window on the inside with a wooden or cardboard partition and a thick glass wool, and put an electric radiator between the window and the partition

the consumption of the radiator to get the usual 20 ° C will be the heat loss through the entire window: faulty installation included l
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by dedeleco » 12/09/10, 23:11

Between single glazing (Uw = 5,80) and triple glazing (the top Uw = 0,680), we save on 30 years, 36 775 liters of fuel, either 25 742 € (!!!!!!) or 514 wood steres and we avoid the emission of 102 tons of CO2 !!!!!! Awesome, no? so true ?

First, 25742 € on 30 years corresponds to 25742 / 30 = 858 € per year, a little less than half of my 36ans annual home heating expense!
For me it is certain that windows, even perfect, zero heat loss (infinite glazing), I would not divide my heating bill as much, looking at the ratio of windows surface on walls!
As at home and my neighbors (who have done for some), the price of double glazing already reaches 20000 € with less than 30m2 surface of small windows, for triple it must be higher, and therefore the amortization is done in 30 years and more, at the moment minimum, with the interest rates !!
So the evaluation of this site
http://www.internorm.fr/Internorm_Tipps ... chner.html
is wrong for my house !!!
In addition this site does not provide small window panes and we are forced to rig with large windows!

In addition, it is good to couple with the external insulation, VMC double flux, (no neighbors did) to reduce by 10 factor the heating bill and the expense is then more than double, to save this investment in minimum 30ans !! !!
In 30 years I risk being dead, statistically !!
The question is: my house aged 30 years after triple glazing, will it be more expensive for my heirs?
I think it is better to renovate it later, coupled with a complete renovation that has become essential for modern tastes and not too much in advance.
Looking almost new, more fashionable, it will be worth more ???
When I see how old 40ans apartments without double glazing and old windows, sell well, with a cheap renovation, without insulation better than the original one (weak), I'm not convinced! !
The location and the appearance of the eyes matter more than the quality of the not very visible insulation (see M6 and home search).
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