Article Gillier Pantone in Le Devoir: good but could do better

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Article Gillier Pantone in Le Devoir: good but could do better




by Christophe » 16/03/08, 10:15

Talk to me well, talk about me badly but, by grace, quote my name!

This old Gaullist adage has been respected about the Gillier Pantone, but the title of this Quebec article alone referred to "hydrogen" starts badly ...

Once again we take info here and there, with pipot figures if possible (it makes breaking better), we mix ("shake" in Quebecois) everything well (pantone and GP doping) and we release a more article or less storyteller ...

By a word on the theory of ionization and on the various hypotheses of explanation (some of which are no more since they are proven by experience):
https://www.econologie.com/synthese-des- ... -3589.html
nor on Vitry: https://www.econologie.com/moteur-panton ... -3404.html

Otherwise the duty of journalist is to quote his sources: neither quantum nor econology have been ...

André if it's in your corner, I think a little "meeting" with this journalist would be nice ... What do you think?

Good reading anyway, because the article is not so bad (reactions of lobbyists who follow the article are bcp less) :)

Image

Engines like to be doped with water or hydrogen

Louis-Gilles Francoeur. Wednesday edition 12 March 2008
Keywords: environment, hydrogen, engines, Transportation, Automobile, Quebec (province)

The automotive industry is slow to use proven, cleaner and more efficient technologies

Antoine Gillier is a peaceful farmer from Allier, France, who did not know his DIY skills would make him famous internationally. An organic farmer, he had been pleading for years, he tells Le Devoir, every time he saw his diesel engine spitting his thick smoke. Until the day he came across a quote from Paul Pantone, the American engineer who gave his name to an invention offered free of charge to the international community on his website in 1999 so that his gasoline engine, doped with water , end up imposing itself on the automotive industry.

It is not new that inventors use water to increase the performance of gasoline engines, as paradoxical as it may seem. During the Second World War, the British equipped their Spitfire fighters with a small tank filled with water to literally disappear from the sights of the German Messerschmitts, equipped with faster jet engines. The water, injected directly on the pistons, carried the engine speed to incredible heights, which often required to restart the engine back. But the pilot was safe. When the first American fighters tried to fly aircraft carriers, the metal track was decidedly too short. The F4U Corsair were then equipped with water injectors, which instantly changed their power from 1850 CV to 2400 CV, the time of a flight!

Many systems have been used since the end of the 19th century to add the power of water and the heat lost in the exhausts to the engines.

Charles Nelson Pogue, a Canadian inventor, was granted a patent in 1935 that literally atomized gasoline by overheating it with exhaust gases, which made it possible to simply replace the conventional carburetor. He claimed to be able to pass the fuel consumption around 200 miles per gallon by fueling the engine with a gasoline vapor thinner than the droplets of current injectors. His idea, very right, has just been taken over by the company Fuel Vapor of Vancouver, which is preparing to market the Alé, a three-wheeled car capable of climbing to 100 km / h in five seconds with a consumption of 2,5 liters by 100 km and a reduction of 75% of CO2 emissions!

The Pantone "reactor"

Although hundreds of patents suggest ways to use water in gasoline engines, the engineer Paul Pantone has really proposed in 1998 a first system adaptable and relatively simple to tinker. A five-liter tank under the hood, called the "bubbler", contains a mixture of gasoline and water in which are injected a portion of the exhaust gas, which bring this liquid to the boiling point. The pressure generated by this mixed steam pushes it into a pipe directed towards the air intake of the engine. But before getting there, the water and air vapors pass into a tube overheated by the exhaust gas in an assembly that may ionize the gases in question; no one really knows for lack of real laboratory studies.

As a result, explains Pierre Langlois, a physicist and consultant who will publish in the summer at Multimondes a book called Roll without oil, some of the energy lost in the exhaust is recovered by the superheated gases that are sucked by the engine, from which a certain gain of energy.

The Pantone quote, which went around the world on the Internet, excited the DIY clubs around the world while the engineering offices of automakers remained ice. It was then that Antoine Gillier, from the bottom of the Allier, inspired by the tests of other inventors of his country, decided to adapt the Pantone system to his diesel tractor, which had not been done yet . He first eliminated the water-gasoline mixture proposed by Pantone to be content with a "bubbler" of water, which is overheated by the heat of the exhaust. The steam thus produced is injected into the diesel air intake simply.

This eminently simplified system makes the diesel engine more powerful, quieter, less polluting and enormously less energy consuming. Today, close to 1000 farm tractors have been equipped in France with the "G-Pantone" system (for Gillier-Pantone), which we come to see from all around the world, which embarrasses very much this peaceful peasant, of first concerned about his fields. But if its system adapts particularly well to old diesels, it is difficult to adapt to today's computer-controlled systems, which do not understand what happens when we send them too clean gases because they are doped with 'water! They then claim more oil for the pistons, which they consider undernourished.

From his farm, Antoine Gillier tells us that he got a reduction of 60% of his oil consumption, "which relieves the budget a lot", and that the energy efficiency is higher when his water-powered engine works stronger, probably because of the temperature rise in the exhaust. Most do-it-yourself farmers who use his system get on average 30 to 40% consumption reductions, he says.

The TFI channel tested - the report is available on YouTube - a small water-doped diesel car with the G-Pantone system. Emissions of CO2 (the reference greenhouse gas) then fall from 8,6% to 0,1%, while nitrogen oxides change from 348 parts per million to 168 ppm and hydrocarbons drop from 3 to 1 ppm, with a reduced fuel consumption of about 20%.

A mystery

Even for a physicist like Pierre Langlois, what happens in a water-doped combustion chamber is an unknown, all the more outrageous, he says, that the automotive industry does not go into these results obtained by these companies. do-it-yourselfers, who are snubbed because their ideas do not come from engineers or patented laboratories.

In Quebec, Professor Yvon Tremblay of the Cégep d'Alma, who has just written a book on tractor engines, has decided to submit the G-Pantone system to a series of scientific tests in order to elucidate what the parameters are. determinants of this technology to better domesticate it.

Several argue that the water vapor that boosts the engines is fragmented under the extreme pressure and heat of the combustion chambers. Pure hydrogen and oxygen would then be added to the fuel, increasing the quality, efficiency and power of the explosion.

It has long been known that adding only 1% hydrogen to an operating combustion engine significantly increases its performance, a process that many companies, Pierre Langlois explains, have been marketing for years in various ways. Unknown to the general public, these processes of "hydrogen doping" give results very similar to those of the G-Pantone engine, which is however simply doped with water.

In the 90 years, MIT developed a system that produces hydrogen in a vehicle through the use of a low power electric arc powered by the alternator. This system breaks down a mixture of water and fuel. This small device, called Plasmatron, consumes only 100 watts. It allows, thanks to the hydrogen atoms injected into the engine, to reduce up to 30% consumption and eliminate 80% of nitrogen oxides without catalyst.

The Los Alamos National Laboratory of the United States arrives at a similar result by a discharge of current in the fuel shortly before it is presented to the injectors, who introduces it in the engine. A tiny plasma is produced that literally atomizes gasoline and releases hydrogen molecules. Nearly a dozen companies are already marketing other "onboard" doping systems, which produce hydrogen by electrolysis of the water, saving 10 at 20% of fuel for hundreds of trucks North Americans and an equivalent reduction in their GHG emissions.

Nobody can explain why these proven devices are not found on production cars.

"Two major factors explain the lack of interest of automakers for these solutions that could advantageously replace catalytic converters and substantially reduce fuel consumption, says physicist Langlois. First, they generally shy away from the ideas of do-it-yourselfers, even of genius, whereas they should be the first ones to take again these ideas, to test them and to draw more efficient equipment from them. But we can not eliminate the idea of ​​the old collusion with the oil industry, which goes back to the association between GM, Standard Oil and Firestone in the 30 years, which had been condemned for removing the trams of cities to replace them with large polluting buses. Manufacturers are still making bigger profits with the sale of big engines and the oil industry is obviously finding it! "


Source: http://www.ledevoir.com/2008/03/12/180054.html
Last edited by Christophe the 16 / 03 / 08, 10: 44, 4 edited once.
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by Christophe » 16/03/08, 10:38

Pieces chosen that will risk to boost the specialists but there is also good!

German Messerschmitts, equipped with faster jet engines.


a) the injection of water probably did not allow to sow a jet plane but to have a temporary overpower to escape from a difficult situation
b) The Me262 only came into service at the very end of the war and I am not even sure he had dogfight with a
c) The German had an equivalent MW50 (methanol wasser 50 / 50%)

See:
https://www.econologie.com/injection-d-e ... -3093.html
et https://www.econologie.com/par-daimler-b ... es-84.html

The water, injected directly on the pistons, carried the engine speed to incredible heights


Unbelievable summits ... waw what is the scientific unit?

His idea (embedded reforming), very fair, has just been taken over by the company Fuel Vapor of Vancouver, which is preparing to market the Alé, a three-wheeled car capable of climbing to 100 km / h in five seconds with a consumption of 2,5 liters per 100 km and a reduction of 75% CO2 emissions!


Ah well here is good news!

it is the engineer Paul Pantone who really proposed in 1998 a first system adaptable and relatively simple to tinker


Pantone is NOT an engineer, he is a "self-taught" inventor and possibly a crook with the sale of pseudo training!

How many times will we have to repeat it so that it goes into the skull of the journalists ???

which bring this liquid to the boiling point.


False: the water has never boiled in a bubbler besides it should not boil!

The pressure generated by this mixed steam pushes it into a pipe directed towards the engine air inlet


HELPING THERE IS BIG ANYTHING ...
Never steam is under pressure in a doping !!!

As a result, explains Pierre Langlois, a physicist and consultant who will publish in the summer at Multimondes a book called Roll without oil, some of the energy lost in the exhaust is recovered by the superheated gases that are sucked by the engine, from which a certain gain of energy.


Yes but that's not all, this thermodynamic loop does not explain the gains.

It's also a copy / pasted of what I said on econology for years ...

It was then that Antoine Gillier, from the bottom of the Allier, inspired by the tests of other inventors of his country, decided to adapt the Pantone system to his diesel tractor, which had not been done yet . He first eliminated the water-gasoline mixture proposed by Pantone to be content with a "bubbler" of water, which is overheated by the heat of the exhaust. The steam thus produced is injected into the diesel air intake simply.

This eminently simplified system makes the diesel engine more powerful, quieter, less polluting and enormously less energy consuming. Today, close to 1000 farm tractors have been equipped in France with the "G-Pantone" system (for Gillier-Pantone), which we come to see from all around the world, which embarrasses very much this peaceful peasant, of first concerned about his fields.


+ 1 and good!

This is, to my knowledge, the 1er article which clearly states the true origin of water doping although Mr David has stated the idea to Mr Gillier.

For the 1000 tractors ca I do not know, several hundred yes but 1000 ...?

But if its system adapts particularly well to old diesels, it is difficult to adapt to today's computer-controlled systems, which do not understand what happens when we send them too clean gases because they are doped with 'water! They then claim more oil for the pistons, which they consider undernourished.


False: the calculator of a diesel does not play on the particles or the soot to inject, any more than on the CO2 ...

Total confusion with the regulation of a gasoline engine ...

Proof is: it works on the hdi!

the fuel efficiency is higher when its water-powered engine works harder, probably because of the temperature rise in the exhaust.


False scientifically speaking ... it is not because the exhaust T ° is higher than there is a gain of engine work. On the contrary, it is the opposite: combustion temperature + high = + working = T ° exhaust + high.

The TFI channel tested - the report is available on YouTube - a small water-doped diesel car with the G-Pantone system. Emissions of CO2 (the reference greenhouse gas) then fall from 8,6% to 0,1%, while nitrogen oxides change from 348 parts per million to 168 ppm and hydrocarbons drop from 3 to 1 ppm, with a reduced fuel consumption of about 20%.


But of course it was a diesel. Then this report is a joke scientistic proving the incompetence (wanted?) of journalist to speak rigorously of motor ...

Rigorous analysis here: https://www.econologie.com/video-sur-tf1 ... -2146.html

Even for a physicist like Pierre Langlois, what happens in a water-doped combustion chamber is an unknown, all the more outrageous, he says, that the automotive industry does not go into these results obtained by these companies. do-it-yourselfers, who are snubbed because their ideas do not come from engineers or patented laboratories.


Ben if Mr Langlois had been on econology, (I think he was but hey ...) he would know more, see https://www.econologie.com/synthese-des- ... -3589.html

Several argue that the water vapor that boosts the engines is fragmented under the extreme pressure and heat of the combustion chambers. Pure hydrogen and oxygen would then be added to the fuel, increasing the quality, efficiency and power of the explosion.

It has long been known that adding only 1% hydrogen to an operating combustion engine significantly increases its performance, a process that many companies, Pierre Langlois explains, have been marketing for years in various ways. Unknown to the general public, these processes of "hydrogen doping" give results very similar to those of the G-Pantone engine, which is however simply doped with water.


Good and fair!

In the 90 years, MIT developed a system that produces hydrogen in a vehicle through the use of a low power electric arc powered by the alternator. This system breaks down a mixture of water and fuel. This small device, called Plasmatron, consumes only 100 watts. It allows, thanks to the hydrogen atoms injected into the engine, to reduce up to 30% consumption and eliminate 80% of nitrogen oxides without catalyst.


To my knowledge, the plasmatron was an on-board reformer (thus transforming the FUEL), I do not believe that it treated "only" water in it but there may have been variations :).

"Two major factors explain the lack of interest of automakers for these solutions that could advantageously replace catalytic converters and substantially reduce fuel consumption, says physicist Langlois. First, they generally shy away from the ideas of do-it-yourselfers, even of genius, whereas they should be the first ones to take again these ideas, to test them and to draw more efficient equipment from them. But we can not eliminate the idea of ​​the old collusion with the oil industry, which goes back to the association between GM, Standard Oil and Firestone in the 30 years, which had been condemned for removing the trams of cities to replace them with large polluting buses. Manufacturers are still making bigger profits with the sale of big engines and the oil industry is obviously finding it! "


Ah well here is a good conclusion! :)
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by Other » 16/03/08, 15:28

Hello

I am more subscribed to this newspaper for its political partisanship
As well as the press, As I am a Souvreniste, and all the newspapers are federalist, with the dépard the DUVOIR was a political newspaper particularly read by by a certain layer of the society, for me it is the same cloth as the others.

When we read this we realize that he knows nothing, articles bacler, glean to the right is on the left, without even informing in their area if there are montages at home.
Anyway I'm talking about it, I go for illuminated
fuel economy most do not care (for the moment)
In 2003 I walked around with my little motor and made oil walking demonstrations, you ended up being called (small engine) it sucks very little interest, almost normal that a gasoline engine runs on oil without self igniting. ...

It's about the same incompetence in you at TF1
anything on the plane type mix a Cessna with a DR
It's true to speak English and to speak of American plane that makes (class)

http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/media/jt/0,,377 ... lbum-.html

You know what I think about journalists ..... If you do not write the article in full and you do not do all the research for them, they make you an assembly that pleases to everyone.

As you think the phone calls and all the answers that will be given to all those who think to trade, research does not interest them .. (you have several ca schez you)
No need to go far just the forum How many times must we justify ourselves, be told that our measures are not good, that it does not work ect ... In the long run the guys who make montages that walk, deserted and fend for themselves.
What happened to Kevin, Zac, Camel and many others?

I would be curious to know Antoine Gillier how they are doing with all these curious, no more interested in editing or developing that should drive him ..
There 35 years ago I lived something with the burner ball, I understood ..


Andre
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by Christophe » 21/03/08, 10:49

Yes André you're right but not so bad: admitted even that this article is not so bad. For example, it's the 1er talking about Gillier-Pantone! And that's good because it means that it takes again the definition that was circulated on econology!

Otherwise people don't like us to change their habit and that also counts for those who "hold" technology ...
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