1964 Guinard Pump

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patou86
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1964 Guinard Pump




by patou86 » 20/05/07, 17:21

Hello everyone
it is the first time that I visit this site and it seems very interesting to me!
Here is my problem: I currently have a guinard pump from around 1964, model MD 40 if I believe what is written above ... This pump works and is used to draw water from a well to bring it into the house and garden circuit.
The problem is that it is leaking more and more and at the end of the pipe, I have hardly any water left! (I guess it's a cause-and-effect relationship ...). She is fleeing at her base. It must be said that it is a vertical pump, connected to a balloon equipped with a pressure switch. When there is enough water in the tank, the pressure increases and turns off the pump. at the base, where it flees, there are like rings placed on top of each other. I guess there are joints between these "rings" and they've been ruined by now! especially since it has been ten years since the pome did not work. Could someone tell me if it is possible to find this kind of joints? Does anyone know this kind of pump and could explain to me how it works? does fixing it seem invisageable? Thank you for your answers
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by Christophe » 21/05/07, 09:38

I think you're talking about a suppressor (or hydrophore it depends on the regions :D ).

Its operation is quite simple: the pump increases the pressure in the tank to which it is connected via a valve in order to have a constant pressure over time and not to run the pump constantly.

Seals that have dried have a good chance of aging much faster but more than 40 years it's already a feat that they are still a little tight ...

In your case it seems that it would be necessary to see to change these seals but if you no longer have any water arriving, the problem may also be elsewhere, a 40 year old pump is at the end of the line.

The most reliable and simple solution would perhaps be to buy a complete group (100 to 200 €) because after the change of the seals you risk having other concerns (assuming that the change of the seals solve the problem) ...

I also recently had a somewhat similar problem with a guinard pump: https://www.econologie.com/forums/pompe-mult ... t3473.html
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by I Citro » 21/05/07, 18:18

: Arrow: To find out if the parts are still available and if the repair is judicious, it is better to approach an RPS (service pump relay) from the KSB group (Guinard was bought by KSB) or an authorized repairer.
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patou86
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by patou86 » 21/05/07, 19:57

Thank you very much for responding to me so quickly!
Yes ! I still have water at the end of the hose but with very little pressure! and the pump seems to be working except for its leaks ...
So as I am a style to preserve things as much as possible instead of invading the planet of waste, I would have liked to try to put it back online! but hey, it should not be utopian: if you consider that it will cost me more to find seals and / or have it repaired, I will do it. But could you, in this case, tell me what kind / brand of pump it is better to buy or especially those that you should not buy! ...
and again thank you for your advice ...
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by I Citro » 21/05/07, 21:42

:?: I did not understand what kind of pump you have, and I have not worked at ksb for more than 10 years ...
It looks like you have a multi-stage pump also called a booster.
The role of each wheel is to increase the pressure.
Unless you have a charged water (sand for example), these pumps have a good longevity if they rotate regularly and do not lack water ...
Otherwise the wheels wear out and the mechanical seal which ensures the seal between the pump and the motor, loose ...
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by Other » 22/05/07, 02:01

Hello

I do not know this brand, but all the pumps are adjusted in the same way.
I guess you are talking about a small diameter pump that is held in place by a cable and that is immersed in a deep well

In general there is a stack of 3 turbines to increase the pressure, the seal is one of the reasons, but not the main
when it ages, or a lot of hours of walking, the water despite its soft appearance is loaded with fine abrasive sand which wears out the front of the turbine, the efficiency of the pump depends on the clearance between the turbine and the flange before this must almost rub,
If you are a handyman, you disassemble the pump and you place shims (tinsels) between the shaft of the turbine to compensate for wear, with a new belloseal seals it will pump like a new one, even more!
any centrifugal pump it is the same thing the turbine and front flange must be at the bare minimum (too much play the bubbler pump and too large grains of sand damage the turbine and front flange even faster.

Andre
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by patou86 » 23/05/07, 12:33

Thank you Citro and André.
So my pump is not submerged. It's probably a booster, or a surface pump.
The suction pipe fitted with a strainer goes to the bottom of the well (clear water, but as you say there may be, perhaps, a little sand). Then the suction pipe goes to the pump: it is a Guinard, which they called at the time "domestic pump", model DM 40 from around 1964 ....
Then the water is discharged to a balloon fitted with a pressure switch which activates the pump according to the water which remains in the balloon.
This whole system works: when the pressure reaches 1 bar in the tank, the pump starts and when it is around 3 bars, the pump stops.
Except that the bottom of the pump leaks and suddenly I find myself with very little pressure in the pipe when, for example, the balloon is empty and the pump directly discharges the water it pumps, in my pipe.
It did not work for long years according to the former owner of the house, who usually only came for the holidays. So this pump worked discontinuously for about thirty years, (like: it worked for 10 days every day, then it did not work for one or two months, then it started up again for 10 days etc) then no longer operated for ten years.
Joints must be dry and that's why it's leaking, I think. Do you believe that by making it work for a little while, (even if the pressure is not at the top and that I am obliged to leave a large basin underneath if I do not want my house to be flooded!) so do you think that the joints can rewet and replay their role? or is a dry joint ruined? and are these seals made of rubber or paper or some other material?
Do you think I have a small chance of saving my old pump, or is it more reasonable (let's say cheaper) to buy a new one?
Okay, thank you very much for your advice. A +
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by Other » 23/05/07, 15:05

Bonjour.

For the leak this will not improve, you will have to dismantle it (quite easy) unscrew the turbine and change the belloseal seal
If it operates too long with a leak it is the ball bearing 6203 which will pass to cash, although if you disassemble these parts do not cost much. , good cleaning may be enough
These join tn eseche pa sc, is a ceramic and a graphite washer which rubs one on the other. Do not be surprised by the rust you will find.
As far as the balloon is concerned, there is no leakage which makes the pressure drop as quickly.
Normally the old balloon it is necessary that half of the volume is compressed air, the new balloon have an inflated rubber pocket, to keep the accumulator effect.
The method you completely drain your tank and you pump water in to compress it, air at the top of the tank, otherwise the pump will only start at each water consumption and you will have no pressure.
it would also be good to have a (Ckeck valve) clapper tanti back at the pump outlet, it is sold in bronze for 1/2 pipe pipe.

Andre
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by bolt » 23/05/07, 22:27

hello patou86

Wouldn't your pump freeze? Which would have forced all the seals at the bottom.

Does your pump sound like a siren when it's running ?: If so, it's really an old pump.
(probably not, because these old pumps had the horizontal axis)

If it is a multi-cell with the visible floors, then there is:
either a joint between each element
either the machining is perfect with a shoulder socket and there is no need for a joint

the stack is kept tight by 3 or 4 threaded rods: are they tight?
If it leaks between the stages, and downwards: it has nothing to do with the "stuffing box" in other words "the mechanical seal" and again in other words "belloseal seal", which is between "the stages stacked "which form the pump and the" motor "which is above

the "mechanical seal" is used to seal the drive shaft of the pump which has to come out of the "pump in which there is water pressure", to receive the rotary movement of the electric motor placed vertically above

all other seals are static

Note that the leak can also come from this "mechanical seal" and then drip down and make you believe that it is the bottom seals that are leaking

Can you put us a photo?
It would be easier to guide you :P

bolt
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by patou86 » 08/06/07, 10:58

thank you André and Boulon! for your very interesting answers.
I'll go and check where it is leaking exactly (between "floors" or above "floors" I'll keep you posted. I'll try to scan the pump manual with the drawing.
see you soon
patou86
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