Tension with Russia in Ukraine

Humanitarian catastrophes (including resource wars and conflicts), natural, climate and industrial (except nuclear or oil forum fossil and nuclear energy). Pollution of the sea and oceans.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by Christophe » 03/10/22, 23:09

Elon gets involved:

0 x
pedrodelavega
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3791
Registration: 09/03/13, 21:02
x 1311

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by pedrodelavega » 03/10/22, 23:14

Remundo wrote:and do you think that Ukraine was independent just after the Rada produced its little good quality independence booklet???!

Yes. As is very often the case. The little booklet, it's called a declaration of independence.

Your little secret meeting, it looks more like a farewell party but everything was already folded.
Besides, it was not to negotiate independence or its terms... but to ratify the death of the ussr, which de facto was inevitable.
It's even written black on white in the article you quoted:
"On December 8, 1991, Stanislav Chouchkevitch and Leonid Kravchuk, the first presidents of Belarus and Ukraine respectively independent,....."

You wrote "previously" while your meeting took place after the declaration of independence as well as after the referendum (for 90%) that went with it.... : roll:
2 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15995
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5189

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by Remundo » 03/10/22, 23:35

the third smoker...

The independence movement had been sketched out as early as 1985 under Mikhail Gorbachev, and Russia, with atomic armaments + Black Sea fleet was not in danger of giving sovereignty to Ukraine unconditionally as soon as its independence cabbage leaf was read. All this was carried out and negotiated very gradually, with official dressing; it was Yeltsin who brought the ball to a close at the meeting I have mentioned.

Finally this independence given to Ukraine is perhaps not what Russia has done best. If the Ukraine had remained the Soviet Socialist Republic integrated into Russia, today the two Brotherly Peoples would not tear each other apart and the collaborations would have been closer...

Today I watched a report from BFM TV around 21:00 p.m. on Russian deserters, which was pretty well done. The young (and less young!) called up are lost and don't understand (rightly) why it would be necessary to die to pound the Ukrainians who, more or less, had the same life and almost the same language as them.

it's an incriminating report of course against Putin, but it also makes sense to take note of the reality:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/asi ... 30489.html

But Putin sees things very differently for him; for him the authority of the Russian state is at stake, and he may have a certain misplaced romanticism of "Great Russia", nevertheless justified by the NATO interference in the garden of Russia.
0 x
Image
pedrodelavega
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3791
Registration: 09/03/13, 21:02
x 1311

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by pedrodelavega » 03/10/22, 23:39

Remundo wrote:Finally this independence given to Ukraine is perhaps not what Russia has done best.

She had no choice.... Ukraine took it. You are rewriting history.
The article you quoted contradicts you (see my message just before):

"On December 8, 1991, Stanislav Chouchkevitch and Leonid Kravchuk, the first presidents of Belarus and Ukraine respectively independent,....."
1 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15995
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5189

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by Remundo » 03/10/22, 23:55

but how naive can you develop... "Ukraine has gained its independence"

but of course, by sending a RAR letter to the Kremlin in 91!
1 x
Image
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by izentrop » 04/10/22, 00:48

Christophe wrote:Elon gets involved:
The question is ambiguous, this one is more appropriate:
Attachments
bogus vote E Musk.gif
bogus vote E Musk.gif (28.92 KiB) Viewed 545 times
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by izentrop » 04/10/22, 01:28

Since June and the arrival of the Himars, the Ukr have been advancing and repelling the Russians.
Provided they manage to send these orcs home, before Putin's reinforcements are trained and "combat-ready"
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by izentrop » 04/10/22, 01:31

0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by Christophe » 04/10/22, 09:59

You didn't understand Elon's idea, I'll tell you another way, but the trolls voted against common sense and against PEACE!



Ukrainians are dirty idiots and impolite in addition:

US billionaire Elon Musk has proposed a peace plan based on surrendering Crimea to Russia and neutral status for #Ukraine. Kyiv's ambassador to Germany told him to 'fuck off'

0 x
User avatar
gegyx
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6931
Registration: 21/01/05, 11:59
x 2870

Re: Tension with Russia in Ukraine




by gegyx » 04/10/22, 10:31

Except that it is (very) involved in the conflict with its starlink satellites which inform, communicate and direct Western missiles against the civilian populations of the East...
1 x

Back to "humanitarian disasters, natural, climatic and industrial"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 105 guests